Tyler Perry Hates Black Women: 5 Thoughts on The Haves and Have Nots


Portrait of the Cast



I watched the premiere of  Tyler Perry’s latest train wreck on OWN last night for two reasons. A.) Morbid curiosity and B.) I didn’t wanna hear negroes’ mouths about how I didn’t give it a chance and was therefore uninformed and unqualified to speak on his show (despite the 12 or so movies and 2 stage plays of his I’ve paid to go see and time I spent watching episodes of his existing tv shows that I can’t get back.) Anyway. Here are my thoughts.

1.) Tyler Perry is a cultural batterer:  the cultural equivalent of an unrepentant wife-batterer. Why, you ask? Well, let’s see. In under 15 minutes of episode one there were three Black women: Hanna, a maid, who speaks like she just left the plantation; Veronica, a rich black lady bitch, who throws her coat and hat at the maid; and Candace, the maid’s daughter, a scheming, conniving prostitute who tells people the mom is dead, later can be seen raising her hand to her mom, has her own son who is God knows where, is allegedly in law school, but paying for it by questionable means, and ultimately by the closing scene of episode two can be seen raping the white patriarch/politician.

The fact that Mammy, Jezebel, and Sapphire, along with their remixes (Bad) Baby Mama, Golddigger, Freak and Hood Bitch showed up in under 15 mins is surely a new world record.

A few caveats: no knock to domestics who speak in Southern dialect — I am from the deep, rural South, love the cadences in our voices, and have a beloved, and dearly missed grandmama who cleaned white folks’ houses well into her sixties.

(But I know a fucking controlling image when I see one.)

No knock to sex workers, who I think should have rights, benefits, and legal protections. Black women sex workers in primetime is a whole different deal representationally, though, and we need to OWN that.

Black women deserve better.

2.) Tyler Perry can only represent Black men positively by throwing Black women under the bus. Since dude’s plotlines are so simple a 13 year old could write them — no disrespect to 13 year olds–, there are of course 3 Black men to balance out the 3 Black women. They include the husband of the rich lady –he’ll prolly be comparable to Scandal’s Cyrus, or at least Tyler prolly thinks that’s what he’s doing, lol; his son, a drug counselor (respectable profession); and the son of the maid, a Shemar Moore lookalike and all around good guy, whose sole aspiration in life is to — wait for it — drive a tow truck. So 1.5 solidly good guys out of 3 ain’t bad. Why 1.5? Because of course the rich drug counselor is on the DL, which in TP’s world makes him a sexual deviant. We’ll see how this plot line develops, but since TP outs dude by way of terrible slow pan shots, meant to simulate not-so-secret longing after the buff white dude, I am not optimistic.

Black gay men deserve better.

3.) I feel some type of way that Oprah would be in league with such foolishness. And that is because I AM NOT AN OPRAH HATER. And I have little patience for people who are. The chick is doing her thing, and I’m proud of her.  And I really want to see OWN do well. That aside. I like to think she has been duped, hoodwinked, and bamboozled. But I know that ain’t the whole truth. Really, OWN is struggling. And when networks struggle, they pimp the “urban demographic” for ratings and money. And once they are set financially, they bounce. The Fox Network did it: Living Single, Martin, In Living Color. The WB, UPN, and the CW all did it. So I see what O is doing, and I resent it.


I know she and Tyler  share that nouveau-riche-Black-southern-abuse-survivor-started-from-the-bottom-now-we-here connection.


Oprah doesn’t seem to understand, that a rich, independent, college-educated chick like her, who shuns traditional marriage, is in Tyler Perry’s world the DEVIL, a veritable, conniving bitch, who hates babies, men, and old people, needs Jesus, plus a good slap from a sexy Black man, and will still probably catch AIDS and live in misery because she chose not to conform to the dictates of Christian respectability.

Why Oprah doesn’t get this is beyond me. It seriously is.

OWN deserves better.

4.) On his best day and her worst day, Tyler ain’t even in Shonda’s stratosphere. This whack-ass mashup of Deception + Scandal + The Help in no way compares to anything Shonda Rhimes is doing. I can already hear the brothers now, talking about how Candace’s character is comparable to Olivia’s character. They are comparable in only one way: they both sleep with white men. Comparison over. And that is how you know that Black men’s primary issue with Olivia is not her moral choices, but her racial ones.  (But Edison was a good guy even though he didn’t get chose; and Harrison — well let’s just say I’m #teamGingham all the way.)

 I digress.

My love of Scandal should be a clear indicator that my problem with TP is not about respectability politics. In other words, I am not advocating for positive representations. I’m advocating for complex, human representations. TP doesn’t complicate Black women; he demonizes them.

Candace is not just a sex worker, but a sextortionist and a rapist. A predator. She does not merely have mother issues, but she nearly slaps her mom and can’t account for her baby’s whereabouts.

We don’t hate Liv, because while we might reject many of her choices, we identify with her as a human being with needs, emotions, and as a person with the ability to do good in the world, despite the bad she also does.

Tyler Perry just thinks Black women — other than maternal domestics– are bad. That’s why he can’t complicate his analysis. But they have therapists for that, and I wish he’d see one. Posthaste.

And this brings me to my final point:

5.) Tyler Perry is dangerous. He has made Black women mistake hate for love. When his heavy-handedness is still not enough to chastise and discipline us for being independent, driven, and sex-positive, he will resort to straight up distortions of history, and assume that his working class audience will miss the sleight-of-hand. Case en point: that rape scene! Because of course history is replete with poor Black women raping rich white men. Not.

And the fact that he would traffic in such an utter fiction — a fiction that is the very basis for centuries of brutality against Black women on the grounds that they are by nature un-rapeable, a fiction that drove the creation of the culture of dissemblance and the politics of respectability — makes his cultural production not merely bad but despicable.

And that is why I titled this essay: “Tyler Perry hates Black Women.” How can he not?

Share your thoughts. Did you watch the show? What did you think?




243 thoughts on “Tyler Perry Hates Black Women: 5 Thoughts on The Haves and Have Nots

  1. I saw a t.v. ad for this show and almost could not believe it was real. The writers here on Crunk have the best media analysis, I especially loved the nuanced look at Love & Hip-Hop. And now this, to save me from my own curiosity, and the onslaught of psycho-cultural assault it is guaranteed to offer. I could not believe that in the age of film-quality television, this is being offered to viewers.

    1. From the first moment I saw the previews for this show, I knew I would NOT be watching. It looked like a hot mess and I’m surprised (disappointed) that Oprah allowed it on OWN.

    2. I watched the show and I liked it. I don’t understand why the writer focused on the black characters’ flaws when all of the white characters, with the possible exception of the daughter, are just as trifling and conniving. The Have and the Have Nots is a SOAP OPERA which is right in line with any typical soap opera (sex, scandals, lies, etc.) you see on primetime. Should I say that the white directors and writers who created Days of Our Lives and As The World Turns hate white people, because the shows are chalk full of scandalous people who happen to be Caucasian? Should all black characters be painted as saints? By the way, what’s wrong with having a life dream of owning one’s own tow truck company? Sounds like an ambitious man with an business-like mind to me. Nothing to be looked down upon. It’s clear that the writer has different VALUES than Tyler Perry and that’s why she abhors his work. However, there are plenty of people that DO share his Christian based viewpoint and DO support him, not just because he’s black, but because they actually prefer to see stories told from his point of view. Tyler doesn’t owe you, me, or any other black person anything but to make his work the way HE sees fit. It’s HIS art and he clearly has supporters. I will admit that Tyler lacks complex characters at times and some of them can be extreme, but he has created black characters in various walks of life and with various flaws and strengths. People need to stop putting so much pressure on him to represent THEIR beliefs and stories when he is just ONE individual. No need to pit Perry and Shonda against each other. There is room enough for the both of them and their different points of view.

  2. Perhaps I’m looking at this too simplistically. But after reading so many authors’ analyses of Tyler Perry’s work through the years, I’m wondering if women’s relationship with him is emblematic of the love struggle in our communities, more broadly. TP doesn’t write black women well because he doesn’t know how to love black women well. And people who can’t/don’t love us the way we deserve can’t see us in the fullness of our humanity. They can’t honor us. That lacking love, in itself, isn’t wrong. We all have difficulty in the “loving ourselves, loving each other” department. However, it is outright disturbing that TP is building an empire on stuff that don’t love us. It’s more sad that so many of us are supporting an artist who really doesn’t love us back.

      1. This article is quite disturbing actually. As a black male w some knowledge on his history in the Americas I understand the frustration with the stereotypical depictions of the black man and woman. What disturbs me is the negativity and distain that comes across in this article. At no point in the reading did I see a suggestion for improvement or support (i may have overlooked it)of a black man (albeit misguided in his approach) that does not fit the image of the average black male as most media outlets normally portray us. Critisism is an entierly negative action unless there are suggestions for improvement or quiet back room support (tuning in to watch his show)

      2. @Kadeem, so “if you can’t support, shut up”? I am disturbed by the misogyny in the Black community where Black men can’t TAKE a criticism (especially when well-deserved!) without getting up-in-arms against Black WOMEN. How about if you don’t support this Black Sister then give “quiet back room support.” /over it.

      3. @Kadeem

        This article is an opinion piece. The writer is in no way required to waste time and space giving constructive criticism, particularly in the case of Tyler Perry, who, as one publication put it, seems to “refuse to improve as a filmmaker”.

        Of course there is “negativity” and “disdain” in the piece, because that is the writer’s reaction to what she saw. She, like a large portion of Black folks, is tired of and frustrated by Perry, and baffled that Oprah would give this kind of platform to such an unabashed hack.

        There is no reason one should “quietly support” work of poor quality. None. Well, none outside of misguided racial solidarity–Black Faces in High Places Syndrome. As someone else commented, we are in an age where there are a great many truly stunning television programs; the fact that someone like Tyler Perry can even get a seat at the table is mind-blowing.

        And, like the author, I don’t need to see “positive” portrayals of Blacks all the time–I just want to see good, complex, nuanced, intelligent stories that make me feel something, i.e. “The Wire”. But a show like “The Wire” requires skilled story-tellers to pull off.

        Tyler Perry ain’t that dude. Never has been. At this rate, probably never will be.

      4. @oneman
        this article is doing exactly what she is accusing Tp of. That is never the correct way to rectify an issue. That’s like killing someone to show them(and others) that killing is wrong and won’t b tolerated. That may be a philosopical difference that we have.

        I never said that there was a problem w expressing her opinion. I however dislike her tone which is a personal thing but I digress.

        What is the purpose of this article? I know there was no call to action but what does the writer want from us as the reader?


        Until u read (underatand) and respond intelligently I will not respond to you again. Your interpritation of my first comment was completely off. Dont patronize me or dumb down my message.

      5. I agree with you Kadeem. Apparently, the ONLY “right” kinda art is art that supports our own personal politics; anyone who deviates from what we personally desire is to be attacked and have their character assassinated in the name of “critiquing.” Got it.

      6. I think the article is garbage and full of anger. I’m not Tyler fan, however, I’m tired of the “angry black woman” routine when they cast as gold diggers, tramps, etc. It amazes me how none of this anger is present when a black man is stereotypically cast (convict, DL, abuser, pimp, drug dealer, etc.). The anger shows when a black man is kissing/dating a white woman but there is no issue if a black woman kisses/dates a white man. The hypocrisy is funny to me and her opinion is so angrily written.

        I don’t think Tyler hates black women. I think he’s showing that black men aren’t the only ones who engage in shady behavior. I’m tired of black women being portrayed in movies as victims and saints and acting is if they are not as conniving as black men. They are as bad, if not worse, and Tyler is exposing that side.

    1. I have read multiple responses to TP work. Yours by far is the most TRUTHFUL I have ever read.

      1. I can address the perfidity of black women. I am a black women of the type that is greatly hated. Let’s say the Lena Horne type. Growing up I used to wonder why I got socially isolated. Chased home from school by a heavy-set, dark who chased me from school to my house. I got in the house and she had to go on. I wonder what she would have done if she had caught me. Through my life black hairdressers used harsh chemicals on my hair leaving me with a scalp full of sores. The ultimate is when one sister tried to set mt hair on fair. Color and hair are the names of the game. Black men who feel in your scalp to see if your hair is real in intimate moments. I give black people a wide berth.

    2. Totally agree with the comment KT. It is a huge “aha” moment for me. This is my first time reading the CFC and with thought provoking articles and spirited exchanges like these it won’t be the last.

    3. Sadly, so many of us are supporting an artist who really doesn’t love us back because WE don’t love ourselves enough to see what’s happening.

  3. I am not here to defend TP but to add another perspective and that is what we can learn from him as content creators. If anything, independent producers, writers, directors and actors should be utilizing today’s technological advancements to create the stories that better reflect your vision. The digital domain is fertile ground for building an audience and promoting your story.
    TP has a willing and ready audience for his work, the question is will you?

    1. This blog is our digital content creation, and I think after 3 years, several hundred posts, and nearly 15,000 FB fans strong, we are doing our part in our corner of the content creation universe.

      Thanks for reading.

    2. I don’t get why we (black people) continue to accept garbage because it comes from one of us.

    3. I want to add that it is a bit false to judge the quality of art by the size of the audience, and maybe your point isn’t about quality but it is vital to critique the art and media images we consume. bell hooks really opened my eyes to the manner in which capitalism exploits art that originates in marginalized communities for commerical gain. So we have to consider WHY people support certain images and messages over others? Why do we constantly see the same tired ass stereotypes of black women over and over? And what our consumption of those images and stereotypes says about the greater society? CFC will continue to draw readers and followers because it opens up a much needed space for dialog around culture, art, the media

  4. How is this show any different from the soap operas and other shows like Dynasty? I don’t recall all the picking apart of those shows. It’s Hollywood. It’s entertainment. It’s not that serious.

    1. I’m really sorry you can’t grasp the concept and the difference here. Whenever there are trashy white tv shows on…. HOW MANY GOOD AND QUALITY WHITE TV SHOWS ARE THERE TO COUNTERBALANCE THAT? And if you still don’t get the difference I’ll put that in caps too…. BLACK SHOWS DO NOT HAVE THE SAME OPTION ON TV!!! There are so few black shows, that it becomes a SERIOUS PROBLEM because EVERY single black show is trashy and low brow. This is not something white people have to worry about. THIS is why TP can be dangerous, because when there are no alternatives, and every single one is a bad stereotype of black people it creates a self fulfilling prophecy situation.

    2. I do agree with you Deirdra! They watch all this bullshit about Love & Hip Hop, Basket Ball Wife’s, Scandal and etc…the shows make black women look really bad!!!!!! But, you wants to put TP down for his entertaining movies, plays and TV show that he does!!! Black women get a LIFE!!!! I love the show last night and will continue to watch it!!!!

      1. There is definitely a difference between “making black women look bad” and straight-up reducing black women to the same old totally false lowest common denominators that white men have been using since the beginning of time. I mean, presumably TP knows actual black women and black experience. He has flat no excuse for being just another TV guy showing the same old stereotypes of black women. He knows better, and if he doesn’t, well that’s a problem because he should.

        And we’ll just note that “entertaining” and “bullshit” clearly are in the eye of the beholder.

      2. Neese, you just made MegaMind’s point……. I can remember how proud I was of the Cosby Show. Then there were critics in the Black community that prefered Good Times because they felt that the Cosby Show “Wasn’t Real”!!!!! Systematic brainwashing. Stand up for something or fall for anything! You are correct that the shows you mentioned are bullshit and you have a right to support TP and have an oppossing opinion. However, don’t sleep on the propensity to be treated as a pawn…….. I think this article went a little further than warranted but I appreciate the heads up and will be cognizant of how my beautiful sisters are portayed. Nevertheless, my sisters need to stop allowing and assisting the media’s attack, passively and willfully!!!!!

    3. They didn’t have social media back then so you can’t compare. We only had Essence, JET, and Ebony with maybe a few independent local publications. You can’t compare the 80s from the 20th century to now, the 21st century.

  5. Whenever I see these Tyler Perry characters…I am always in the back of my mind wondering “In what universe do people like this actually EXIST?” I

    1. That was my same reaction, from the get-go. His characters are so one-dimensional, his plots so heavy-handed, and his representations so far-fetched, I don’t find his work the least bit interesting or entertaining. His writing has all the nuance and complexity of a 13-yr old’s (no disrespect) and I wish he would just stop now.

    1. What how rude did you really have to attack her physical features first time blogging one must have thick skin

    1. Shhhh! If Oprah gets wind of that remark she’ll just try to get Iyanla to fix his life.

  6. Amazing–you can’t get an Oprah-type fictional representation of a black woman even on HER network.

  7. I see TPs characters and immediately revert back to my childhood and my mom intervening when we tried to watch shows that demeaned black people. She’d be stunned to see that no one demeans us better then TP. I think he truly believes in what he is doing which is even scarier.

  8. Thanks again four your compelling analysis. Keeps me from ever needing to watch the series. Toxicity is bad for the soul!

  9. “Why Oprah doesn’t get this is beyond me.” Might I offer a possible explanation? Could it be that she sees a bigger picture than you do? Could it be that the most powerful black Woman in history has more vision? Maybe. Could it be that TP is just a guy makig movies and tv that some folks like? (Mind you, by some I mean tons.) He doesn’t have to make tv that YOU like. Do we say Young and the Restless writers the white women? No! They just make cheesy tv with villains and not so complex plots. And that’s okay. But when a black writer isnt doing something deep and profound, WE attack him. So yeah, my guess is Oprah doesn’t sit it your way because that’s how she became Oprah. She saw what hose around her couldn’t.

    1. your comparison to the young and the restless is off-base. white women don’t struggle against the same stereotypes that this piece so eloquently points out (mammy, sapphire, jezebel, baby mama, gold digger, etc.) their depiction in media is varied and provides a plethora of complex characters and narratives. conversely, black women have very few places where our stories are told through fiction or non-fiction. between tyler perry and ratchet reality tv, the world is witnessing a myopic and exaggerated view of black womanhood. i find it both hurtful and disrespectful.

      1. Good question Alexis. I am a teacher, lawyer and community organizer who works with youth in under-served communities to teach them about the importance of developing healthy lifestyles. We tackle issues such as health disparities, food deserts and building a positive body image from a social justice perspective. I can tell you that television and stereotypes provide scripts for Black womanhood for most of the girls in our program. Their conditioning is undeniable based upon their styles of dress, language and attitudes. Imagine the cast of Love & Hip Hop and the main characters of Tyler Perry films come to life. Our goal is to combat this conditioning and provide balanced examples of what it means to be a Black woman.

        Also, I have a blog where I tackle issues related to race, gender, class and sexuality. It’s called Politics and Fashion: http://www.politicsandfashionblog.com. Thanks for the question, and I hope you have a chance to check it out!

      2. “white women don’t struggle against the same stereotypes that this piece so eloquently points out.”
        That is a huge generalization as well because they in fact do. Check out the documentary, “Miss Representation.”

    2. Well, yes. I’m not a narcissist so I certainly don’t move through the world thinking that it’s all about me. Lol. And I’m sure Oprah is far more visionary than me. Though her big picture here is saving OWN. Period the end. Tyler Perry – well they call that ish blindness and myopia. But if you wanna call it sight, that’s your prerogative.

      I hope that Oprah gets what she bargained for and that it doesn’t cost the rest of us too much in the process.

      1. Thank You for your analysis and it is not narcissist. I am familar with this type of behavior because i am currently pursing a PhD in Clinical Psychology and this does not appear to be your profile. You appear to have honest, God fearing insight on someone that is trying to destroy our youth. Please continue to speak the truth without waver. I agree with your analysis and could add much more to it. As you state, Oprah will get what SHE bargained for and this could cost our Youth. If Oprah and Tyler had spouse and families it is possible they would rethink what they are doing.

    3. Wow yeah I’m sorry but some folks really need to learn about the nature of capitalism as it pertains to the art of marginalized people.

      1. ^^^^ I understand that she is talking about the music industry in this video but I think that you can compare the misogyny in rap music that makes money because it is present in other types of commercial black art, ie TP. And the color cast system is presented in his art in problematic many ways.

    4. What picture are you talking about? What makes a woman Powerful is her relationship with God. When you start commenting about white people you must remember they have access to media and are on every channel. We don’t have many people representing us on TV as Blacks, therefore we need realistic and not emasculatory content representing us to the youth. Our youth are more important than we are.

    5. Oprah is not the most powerful black woman in history. People always make the mistake of automatically inciting power with money.

  10. this is the best piece i’ve read about tyler perry in a long time! thanks so much for sharing such a sharp analysis. i too have wondered about the tyler perry/oprah connection. initially i thought she was doing her duty to show love to a fellow black film and tv entrepreneur. now, with giving him his own show on her network, it’s obviously gone beyond “lemme help this brotha out” to overt support for his coonery. pointing out the financial incentives gave me an ah-ha moment.

  11. I just did not know what to say..
    Black maid.. Of course her kids had different daddies.
    Black daughter- Selling her body
    Black son–Asking his sister to pay the mortgage
    Other black son- gay
    Black rich woman- hating on other sister

    Let’s see white folks
    Husband- Rich and cheating
    Wife-Fat and unhappy
    Son- Drug problem..

    1. Exactly. The “stereotypes” of white people, almost seem attributable to real life huh…funny how TP does that.

  12. Oh.. I was not finished.. Thanks Tyler for once again making us black women look like fools.. We are not happy

    1. Some of you black women make your own-selves look like fools….not just TV but in real life!!!!!! check out the bull you watch when it comes down to reality shows!!!!! TP didn’t have anything to do with that!!!!

      1. You, Neese, are assuming that the women complaining about TP’s show on OWN are the same women watching the reality television shows that also makes Black women look ridiculous.

        Just think about your assumption for a moment and why you think it is accurate. Then you need to stop assuming.

  13. In general, TP is churning out ideas and entertainment representative of what his audience likes and viewpoints that this audience already has. He brings a heightened drama (which can be dangerous) to a lot of the issues the working-class black community are already attuned to (prostitution, the down-low, black-white race relations, etc.) It’s good that he’s addressing these issues because, as it’s been said, no one else in hollywood is really telling these stories. However, he obviously does not have the historical knowledge, vocabulary or repertoire to address these important and sensitive topics properly so it becomes exploitation, cheap entertainment and buffoonery. What wonders an undergraduate “History of African American Film” class could do for him….

    1. Awesome comment! In addition, Oprah has executed similar hatchet jobs to Zora’s work (casting Hallie as Janie, so not the best choice or even what Ms. Zora describes) and her misunderstanding of the very literary Beloved. Most folk don’t recollect, but Oprah DID NOT finish college. Think she did a semester and for the culturally relevant characters in classic fiction, she could benefit from a couple of women’s studies courses, an African-American women’s studies course and a seminar on trope in literature.

      1. Oprah absolutely has a degree from Tennessee State University. She graduated in 1987 with a degree in Speech & Drama. Just wanted to correct the misinformation.

      2. I absolutely loved Oprah’s representation of “Their Eyes Were Watching God”. The soundtrack (if music for made-for-tv-movies are called that), the music, the scenery, etc all worked so well together. A truky beautiful take on Hurston’s book.

        Halle Berry played Janie well, in my opinion, and she and “Teacake” had such chemistry that it was amazing. Loved the movie – of course, it did not follow the book to an absolute tee, but it was close enough and made many of the points of Hurston’s original.

      3. Nadia, thanks for the correction! Oprah did go back and get the degree in 1987, years after she first went and after she was “Oprah”.
        To The Other Jess, I have a deep love of all things Zora and understand that my perspective may not be shared by those casual to Zora and her writings. There should be no “take” on literary canon. In addition, to reduce Janie and her choices, that signified on womanhood, socio-economic position and light skinned privilege in the world illustrated in Their Eyes, to “chemistry with Teacake” is sadly diminishing. It pleased me that an attempt was made, but I was greatly dissatisfied with the end product. That’s the risk when the attempt is made to make literature (and I consider it so for the imagination characterized by it’s excellence of style, expression and themes of enduring interest) into something palatable and understandable to the masses.

      4. Oprah, while not as bad as Tyler Perry (mainly because she has her successful hand in many other categories besides Black film) is guilty of churning out well-intentioned but problematic work as well. Her investments in movies like “The Help” and “Precious” are great examples. What’s worst is that her ginormous following consists of mostly white women who will also see these movies just because her name is on it–therefore reinforcing certain AA stereotypes back to a white audience. 🙁

      5. great point khay about oprah’s audience and the proliferation of those stereotypes. you and i may disagree on the “success” of “precious,” which i loved (but that was more lee daniels than oprah) and i refused to see “the help.” BUT again, GOOD POINT about the audiences and who follows “the” oprah…..

      6. Unfortunately the black race is destroyed mentally, and emotionally. Its almost foolish that the very ones now in a positions of power in our culture, “black women” can not see when they are being targeted. With that position of power comes wealth. Corporations have used your own hard earned money to character assassinate you. The majority of black women went right along with the stereotyping of us or “your” black men. Your brothers fathers and sons were made to look like the most ignorant fools on the planet, and you bank rolled it!!! Now you are the target. You have been brainwashed to hate black men subconsciously. God forbid if something happened where we needed unity, we cant even get along in our own homes. I hate to paint with such a broad brush but, due to the instability in our homes and communities the majority of our brightest women have such a deep seeded bitterness and hate for us, they don’t realize they fell for the oldest trick in the book. Divide and conquer. If our women have to take care of the kids due to our own shortcomings as providers, they will submit to ANY entity for the sake of the kids. (not family). They will be slaves not just mentally but physically as well. The blind devotion to Oprah is comical at best. How does she relate to the average black women today besides her skin color. No kids or husband or significant other just money and a whole lot of white friends. T.P. been running around in drag for years. Its cool when he just making black men look stupid and weak. But when he turns the tables its a problem. Is this the role model for our sons? He can show us in that light and its o.k., but when the sisters in his stories start acting like some of the the women I see and meet and hear about its problematic. The major networks and media have been painting black women in that light for a minute now. They are not laughing with you!

    2. Yes, and yes, khay. TP could do us a favor by going to film school, and for himself by demonstrating to young, aspiring directors how to perfect the craft. But, he probably knows he won’t rake in the same amount of money! This really gets me hopping mad TP elects plagiarism approaches instead.

  14. I don’t want to see a respectable ho (scandal) or a buffoonish ho with TP! It is funny that you try to make a difference. Both shows are just two sides of the same coin. Both writers and studios understand that black folks are so starved to see black people on the small or large screen they can put out anything and black folk will buy it. I don’t watch Tyler Perry movies just as I don’t watch Scandal because neither show stand close to what even in the worse days of media racism black folks still tried to put out something with substances. The Bill Cosby, Sydney Potier comedies such as Let’s Do It Again or Uptown Saturday Night or a Piece of the Action are far better than both shows. Those shows while funny gave black folks a sense of dignity. These writers cannot touch shows like A Hero Ain’t Nothing but a Sandwich, Claudine which tells how the welfare system helped destroy the black family and relationships-Sounder- In the Heat of the Night and Mir. Tibbs- The Spook that Sat by The Door and a whole host of films that depicted black life, social consciousness and culture in a way these sell outs could never dream of. The best show ever was the Richard Pryor Show. Most of those shows were absolutely excellent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVzCYmHI40g

    1. Problem is most of those shows/movies, many of which I’ve watched an episode or two of, are like 40 years old, too, which incidentally is older than I am. So clearly that’s not a viable strategy. What would you suggest in terms of having better representation?

      1. While those shows are a few decades old, I think the point in her post is simple. Those shows consistently perpetuated self-worth, personal character, responsiblity, accountability, hard work, values, and genuinely helping others. Some qualities and attributes are timeless. Period.

    2. Best response I’ve read Reuben. Everything else is just the same story/complaint. What is being done about it? Tired of everyone having so much to say; typing essays in the comments of blogs and going back to life as usual. Would love to see all of this energy put into something productive. When the movement to actually put our MONEY into a movement and make a statement about what we want to see, I’ll continue reading about Tyler Perry MAKING MONEY, and I think I’ll skip reading what any of you have to say about it.

      1. /tired of people saying “what are you going to do about it?” rather than doing something about it. It’s easy to foist action off on others and then criticize from a distance.

      2. Pimps and hitmen make money. Doesn’t mean I wan’t to strive to be or support one. Quality and capital can co-exist. Not sure if TP chooses to stay on the chitt’lin circuit or if he’s just not capable of better. Time will tell, but I don’t feel compelled to watch his evolution at the price of our cultural devolution.

  15. “I know she and Tyler share that nouveau-riche-Black-southern-abuse-survivor-started-from-the-bottom-now-we-here connection.”???

    Bahahaha, I nearly DIED at that.

  16. The analysis was spot on. I would like to offer that TP latest treatment seems to be a remix of “Little Black Girl Lost”, especially with the rape scene and other characters. However, his well known TP formulaic portrayal is poorly written and poorly executed. TP is like QT in black face! BOOM….

  17. go on ahead, professor crunk! as i said on twittah, i was reading an article about the rape scenes in tyler perry’s recent movie and one of the trigger warnings was, “Tyler Perry”…and rightly so. the man is such a champion of insensitivity to black women that his name, alone, is a potential trigger..smh

  18. I’m wondering if you critique everything you watch to this degree. Who watches a show and picks it apart to the point where it’s like a doctoral dissertation? I am not familiar with your work but it must be exhausting not to be able to watch anything for the sake of entertainment. Every show with Black characters can’t be the Cosbys. And every time someone Black writes something or stars in something isn’t an attempt to right all of the cultural and historical wrongs of Black folks. I think we try too hard to make everything a deep statement about how people feel, think about and portray Black people. This is cable tv not Broadway or PBS. It’s not that serious. And I still think people hate on Tyler Perry just for the sake of it. When people go out of their way to bash him and the things he produces, it perpetuates the stereotype that Black folks are our own worst critics and continue to lead the pack in trashing successful Black people. That’s more damaging than any play, movie, sitcom, etc that TP has every done. And I think the word coonery is overused. People use it to try to make folks feel stupid or bad if they watch or like something that supposedly contains ‘negative images of black people’. We need to confront the real people in the world who give life to these stereotypes in the first place if it’s that big of a deal.

    1. SH:
      The writer of this piece did not A) ever call what Perry does coonery, B) critique him for not being the Cosby’s (in fact she went out of her way to say that the respectability or lack thereof of his work is not the point of her critique), or C) say his work contains “negative images of Black people” – again, she explicitly said she is not interested in “positive” images.

      You should re-read the essay, and then maybe try to respond to what was actually offered, instead of trying to argue against what you thought her points would be.

      To respond directly to some of *your* points:

      “It’s not that serious” is usually a pretty bad argument when defending pop culture, but in TP’s case, it’s one of the worst arguments that you can make, since he himself claims that his work is a kind of popular cultural ministry. He uses his Christian belief as a way of saying that he is offering life lessons that his viewers can benefit from. So yes, it absolutely is that serious.

      “We need to confront the real people in the world who give life to these stereotypes”
      Um, that’s what the author is doing. Tyler Perry’s work gives life to these stereotypes in his plays, movies and tv shows, so this work is confronting him and those works. If you mean that we need to confront conniving bitches who do sex work to support themselves through college and also rape their white rich male johns in their own palatial homes–I say if you can find that actual woman and confront her, God bless.

      “every time someone Black writes something or stars in something isn’t an attempt to right all of the cultural and historical wrongs of Black folks”
      That’s true. But when works like this double down on and reinforce those cultural wrongs in the name of uplifting the race, or even just entertainment, it is unquestionably a problem.

    2. So, you meant to say “TL;DR.” Because you didn’t absorb what was written. Most of us ask for nuanced media, complex media, untypical media. TP is not that person, and doesn’t purport to be.

  19. If you notice Crunktastic, all Hollywood is remakes! The material for great movies and sitcoms has already been wrote! Don’t have to rewrite or invent a new wheel. It is just from Oprah to TP to Rhimes they don’t have the collective courage to write it. They don’t want to be BLACKBALLED like Richard. LOL! So we might as well get use to more TP and Rhimes or as in my case watching old “Raisin in the Sun.” It is so sad we don’t have that George Clinton mentality of “One Nation Under a Groove.” Black entertainers which include athletes, plus politicians and pastors have been bought and sold. We go along to get along and watch our children suffer on the streets (over 300 black youth died by gunshots in Chicago alone) but there is not one song, movie, politician or pastor willing to speak to it but we love Scandal and Rhimes and TP and his mess. Over the Memorial Day weekend there were at least nine shot in Chicago and there was not one national out cry from anyone and especially not black folks. Black unemployment is still over 25% in some demographics but there is no “Living for the City ” or Malcolm X movies to speak artistically but we love T.D Jakes and Pastor “Dollar.” Artist today have no real message but get the dollar and forget the message. “Don’t Push Me Cause I’m Close to the Edge, I’m trying not to Lose my Head.” It’s like a Jungle Sometimes It Makes Me Wonder How I Keep From Going Under.” Both these shows are mess, What’s Going ON?” Cowardice and Greed! That’s what is going on! Crunk, we are in trouble!!!!!!

  20. Amazing amazing, HILARIOUS, and amazing. (As if everything you write)

    I do have a question. You mention that you are not an Oprah hater, but is it also fair to critique her particular brand of assimilation/respectability, colorblindness, and (dare i say) Mammy trope she seems to encapsulate that is also vital to her success? Can we acknowledge or dismiss her negotiations with white supremacy/capitalism/patriarchy while also rooting for her overall success? Where is the line?

    Thank you for writing this piece.

    1. For sure, Nicole. She is definitely open to critique on multiple levels. There are things about her as a media visionary and as a person who resisted marital respectability and has pursued her own path that resonate with me strictly on a personal level. But there is plenty to be said about her politics and media representation absolutely.

  21. Thank you for this! Giving me life this Wednesday! I especially appreciate your acknowledgement of TP’s use of AIDS as a punishment. I have worked with many patients with this disease and find his use of it disrespectful and demeaning when so many people are trying to live full lives, many of them children, in the face of such callous disregard as seen in his movies. Your analysis is awesome and saving me from having to watch!

  22. Your statement about “his working class audience” smells of pure elitist hyperbole and I find it deplorable. You didn’t have to watch the show, but I guess you had to force yourself to watch it in order to write this rant. Mr. Perry seems to bring your insecurities to the surface. The so called black feminist collective loathe any expression of black female sexuality that appears on any stage and would rather hide it unless it has been approved by someone else. Mr. Perry is not some kind of gauge to measure whether he loves black woman or not. The level of contempt directed at this man would be better used to destroy all what ails our community as a whole. This is purely fiction, a soap opera, but some folks are so vested in the political that they can’t see the entertainment. Don’t like it. Don’t watch it, it’s that simple. There’s no need for feminist dissertations on male patriarchy in our society created around Tyler Perry’s perceived hatred of black woman. I can’t stand the claiming of perpetual victim-hood, I want to read about empowerment, not the excessive whining about nothing. On to the next…

    1. Wait…you came on a feminist blog to say that the author shouldn’t write a feminist article?

      Where does that make sense?

  23. I never watch “our” shows anymore. I have never seen a TP play & no movies in the theater, nor the comedies that were on. I know his rep, my daughter & I joked that the Temptation movie looked interesting until we saw who made it! I watched last night with out picking it apart. It’s a soap, trashy and full of hot mess! It’s a TP production, he did everything. May be he needs to keep producing, but hire staff writers & directors. It wasn’t perfect for sure.

  24. I think Tyler Perry hate, by black people, is a class issue. Tyler Perry is no grand artist. He’s a man who wanted to make movies, and based on what he shares about his own life, dude writes from which he knows. I don’t think he hates black women. But as a black woman, a many-generational descendant of the Africans enslaved in the US, and who grew up poor, I notice that the Tyler Perry hate mirrors the intra Black community contempt that middle and upper class African Americans, and black people who are first, second generation children of immigrants to America, really distance themselves from anything that smells of “lower class, American blackness”. I think Tyler Perry is fair entertainment, and he writes about things that some people can actually relate to, using a style of humor that I think is particularly familiar to black people, descended of US slaves, and are poor. I agree that he has a working class fan base and targets them and I don’t see anything wrong with that.

    1. I agree. I think that TP shows (and many of the sitcoms/dramas) on TV are fair entertainment, For instance, some television shows are bringing in actors from back in the day to breathe life into their shows. In Dallas, we went from who shot JR to who killed JR. I think TP writes about things that a segment of people find entertaining, just like the other shows on TV. All of the primetime shows have some form of fan base. its all entertainment. There are flaws in the programs on TV that are a disservice to the Black community and can be found in many of the shows. Personally, i think that we are underrepresented on TV no matter the show.

    2. Well, I am a first-generation college graduate, grew up poor in rural Mississippi, and I teach(barely middle class status) and I LOATHE his over-the top, woe is me, my man beat me, I’m a slut characters..All of his “art” is nothing more than stereotypical bull crap that further makes Black people look like we are still in the 1920s.. Class status has nothing to do with the reasons why some seem to not like his work, it’s because his work is predictable and fails to do anything other than carry on the traditional negative images of Black people..

  25. “They have therapists for that”

    This is EVERYTHING! TP needs therapy. I really feel like exposure to his work amounts to psychic violence, especially for black women and men. The number of folks consuming his work is a major reason why it doesn’t anger me as much as it scares me.

  26. Interesting post. I have a few questions. What types of images of Black women and black gay men would you like to see? What type of programing would you like to see on OWN? Also, how does the show SCANDAL fit into this conversation? I just don’t get the dislike and distaste for Tyler Perry. Really searching for honest dialogue.

    1. Mike, as Dr. Cooper said in her commentary, Perry’s characterizations are caricatures. They lack human depth and complexity. No one is ever all good or all bad, people (including those created by writers) are motivated by any number of complicated factors that make them seem more real, relatable and understandable as people. Perry’s women characters lack the complexity of a character like Olivia Pope. In fact, as she said, Olivia Pope would be considered the DEVIL in a Tyler Perry production because she does not fit the ideals of “Christian respectability.” She is having an affair with a married man. She is completely independent professionally. But no one can question that Olivia Pope is a successful (in many ways) woman who is also smart, strong, driven and powerful. Think about Perry’s movies over time and how women who get “above themselves” ultimately end up suffering dire circumstances unless they find a man or are rescued by a man. And it’s not as if women are ever characterized as an Olivia Pope. In the Tyler Perry world that always seems like a bad thing. And that’s a tired representation that I don’t really want to see on screen any more.

  27. Interesting you bring in Shonda Rhimes. As a black woman, I feel that Shonda also HATES black women. She, too, has some serious issues with herself, and other black women. I think both Tyler and Shonda do absolutely nothing for Black women, and perpetuate ridiculous sterotypes.

    1. I’d love to hear more of your thoughts on why you think Shonda hates black women. Couldn’t disagree with you more, but I am fascinated by a view that is so thoroughly the polar opposite of mine. I hope you’d elaborate on this.

    2. Agreed! I can’t stand Shonda Rhimes. Olivia Pope is about the best Black female character Rhimes has ever had, and that’s not saying much.

  28. Would this discussion exist if Kelsey Grammar was the writer and producer of this show? Where was this level of criticism when Spike Lee was making movies that made black people look “bad” ? It was profoundly entertaining and eye opening when he did it. I’m just saying. Not knocking anyone’s opinion at all because you’re all entitled to it. Personally I believe he brings light to these topics and characters because it’s necessary to do so in order for ua to take a deeper look at ourselves and begin to make the necessary changes to be and do better. In the meantime, our culture is full of shows like BGC, Real Housewives and other similar “reality” shows that portray our women just as badly, yet the majority still tunes in.

    I say this with respect.

  29. Thank you for critically pre-empting the comparisons to Scandal. The Haves and Have Nots was a train wreck exactly as you described and not in a good way. Thoughtful, spot on, funny as hell analysis.

  30. Waste Not, Want NOT. In otherwords…absolutely NOT. I have no desire to watch anything he produces for all the reasons you mentioned in your article. Thank you for writing what so many of us are thinking.

  31. hmmm. I didnt see the show.
    but from this article there is very little actual content that provides enough substance to back up your points. you state you know a controlling image, how and why is tylers image different and controlling?
    what evidence suggests that he is attempting Shonda Rhimes? what information or basis do you have for your Oprah analysis and what and how “Tyler’s world” categorizes her. I dont disagree necessarily but the article doesnt allow me to support that. it is very much so vitriolic in tone and almost personal in nature.
    it reminds me of the simplistic representation men have used to describe and ridicule scandal.

  32. Can’t wait to watch The Haves and Have Nots I thought it was great!!!! Then, I will be watching his TV show tonight as well on OWN!!!!! Get with it….it’s called TV!!!!!!

    1. Okay Okay we get it you did not like the article. But why are you so butthurt to come back here time and time again? You must not have much of a life. Don’t like something move on.

  33. I can no longer hold my peace about what I believe is a critical impasse in our analyses of Tyler Perry. Yes; black feminists are right when they argue that the gender, sexual, and class politics of his films are problematic. Yet as this article suggests, it is time for a more “complex, human representation” of Tyler Perry. I believe that in order to move beyond this critical impasse of Tyler Perry as “whipping boy,” we need to render him a more “complex personhood” as a man, filmmaker, actor, producer. Jennifer Williams once wrote an article about Tyler Perry’s production of “For Colored Girls” that argued that Perry uses the female body in his films in order to achieve a catharsis from his own traumatic past. Of course, this is problematic because he can never imagine the feminized, violated or traumatized body as his own. I do not think that Tyler Perry hates black women, as this suggests distancing from his characters. I believe that Perry identifies with these women in some strange way; many of his characters are some fantastic and distorted projection of self. Remember, in his narrative of his own abusive past, he identified with “Precious,” and her use of her imagination to escape her traumatic experiences. I am not suggesting that we turn to Perry’s traumatized masculinity to explain away his violent representations, but to think more critically about the way trauma traffics in violence through repetition and compulsion. (I mean seriously, it is more than money that compels him to continually address issues of rape, abuse, class, and gender roles in his films, although in hackneyed ways). Perry’s masculinism (even in his performance of Madea as an inviolable woman) is a well-established fact, but it is time for us to move our analysis forward, and in addition to critiquing his problematic filmic representations, we must turn a feminist lens, and a more humanistic lens, to Perry.

    1. I think your ideas are intriguing and probably correct. But I don’t know that we owe TP a more humanistic lens. My argument is not merely that his representations are problematic, but more so, that they actually do psychic and cultural violence to Black women. We are under no political obligation to respond to violence humanely in the midst of attack.

      My concession to his psychoses is to encourage him to seek therapy, and I was actually being serious when I suggested it. But Black women and Black feminists are not responsible for facilitating his healing.

      1. My argument is not merely that his representations are problematic, but more so, that they actually do psychic and cultural violence to Black women.

        How do you know this to be the case? What mechanisms can/are you using to prove these claims?

        How would you respond to the scores of black women who write and applaud TP for offering them inspiration, enlightenment, etc?

        You appear as though you speak of Black women as a set of undifferentiated human beings who don’t have varying narratives that might read TP’s work as text through another lens.

        Indeed his work may be oppressive to some but it may be liberating to others and so on.

  34. My only comment is to say both Tyler Perry and Shonda Rhimes make terrible ass t.v shows. Shonda Rhimes loves to jump the shark on every episode and strain ones ability to suspend disbelief to the breaking point, it’s ridiculous. And TP well we already know TP couldn’t make a good movie/t.v. show to save his life. But guess what people like terrible movies/t.v. shows their allowed to. I have no problem with that.
    I just will continue to call it terrible.

  35. Oh Tyler Perry…you continue to bring us such awful stereotypes, while openly hiding your closeted homosexuality by getting all of your attractive male characters shirtless by episode’s end, while all the females remain fairly covered up throughout… Come out, come out, wherever you are…

    1. Sure he is gay, but he makes the males go shirtless as a reward to the females who watch his movies. Aint no brothas watching a TP movie unless it’s 3rd date night and they are reaching.

  36. I clicked on this link from a posting on my FB news feed. I just want to say you are a FANTASTIC writer! And to ask – Why in the world are you spending time writing about Tyler Perry? With your platform and your amazing skills you could be writing about all the alternatives media representations of black women that aren’t being written about. Such action may bring new audiences to work that can not begin to receive the attention that Tyler Perry is getting. He has an audience. He’s built an incredibly loyal audience over more than a decade. I’m not sure how many of them read this blog. If you want to convert hearts and minds, I encourage you to use your talent to reach beyond the choir – in terms of sharing knowledge about the alternative work being made. And I also encourage you to take your voice to platforms that may have audiences with little foundation to understand the impact of Perry’s media images. I’m thinking about the Media Take Outs of the world.

    I taught Analyzing Reality TV this semester at Bennett College for Women and my students entered the classroom excited about watching Love and Hip Hop and The Real Housewives of Atlanta in class. We used Jennifer Pozner’s book Reality Bites Back: The Troubling Truth About Reality TV. Honestly, the students simply didn’t know what they didn’t know until they studied it. Needless to say, they will never look at reality TV the same way again and have begun to share what they have learned with their friends. If you haven’t read her book, I highly recommend it.

    Again, you have amazing writing skills. I’m looking forward to reading more of your work!

    1. Hi Yvonne,

      We actually do quite a bit to cover alternative media representations here: spotlighting work by Ava DuVernay, Issa Rae, Dee Rees, Janelle Monae, Mia McKenzie, etc.

      We are, however, also cultural commentators and critics, and this warranted a response. We are fans of Jenn Pozner’s work and she has been a friend to the CFC.

      Thanks for reading and for the work you’re doing.



  37. I really like the way you wrote this. There’s some artistry in there I admire and strive to. The analysis works for me too. My only question would be-why is he so successful. Perhaps the archetype, the stereotype, is a way that Black audiences acknowledge how subjective, passive and ridiculous a movie us. The analysis is one thing-but the success is counterintuitive. I think some of these elements have always been there in his films though I am not an expert. But I say that to highlight there is no real critical mass he has reached-folks have consistently liked what he has put out and he continues to do it. I also don’t think black audiences are dumb or stupid. There’s something the images feed in us. I think that’s the riddle. He is also independent-so he’s technically not answering to someone else.

  38. Honestly? I was disappointed… Totally! As a matter of fact I compared it to a “Soap Opera”. It made black people look like sh*t and like you I couldn’t believe that guy’s dream was to be a “tow truck driver”, that right there is offensive. It is “unfortunate” that we black people are all being displayed as “good for nothings”, but if a black producer/director/writer like Tyler Perry can’t help us to get us out of this rut, then who can?? Truth be told, I can’t be bothered with “The have & the have nots”, I won’t be a fan!

  39. You are right in suggesting that TP must seek counselling. What about therapy through his art, if he trully identifies with his female characters, it seem to me that he is only perpetuating self-hate and not exploring self-love that propelled him to the ‘top’.

    TP needs to make a film, starring a male character, who is abused, put down and triumphs. In other words make a male version of precious- since he said before that he identifies with the character and her use of imagination to escape her world. That way he will stop assigning the ‘damaged’ TP role to females and the successful TP to Males.

    An artist does not excel until they exorcize their demons via their art. For Dickens- Oliver twist (spent his childhood in starvation), Maya Angelou- I know why the caged bird sings, Spike Lee- Do the right thing/ (his Brooklyn life)School daze (from morehouse days), Bergamann- Fanny and Alexander. I could go on.

    In other words TP needs a self-portrait of sorts, unless he does that, his goods will be half baked. Always.

  40. While I agree with quite a bit of was written here, something that TP mentioned during his interview with Oprah (after the airing) has stuck with me. He mentioned the same divisions of ‘high-brow” vs. “low-brow” writing/literature during the Harlem Renaissance. Langston Hughes was pretty vocal about his dislike and lack of respect for Zora Neale Hurston’s literature. He found her use of dialect, common stories and language troubling and beneath the greats of the era. Sound familiar?

    So while I understand our stories are fewer and more scarce (so the few created are elevated unfairly) but is that TP’s doing? He’s simply doing his part, to tell his type of stories, to fill that type of void. If there is imbalance (which I believe there absolutely is) then why spend so much time tearing down “Zoras” versus pushing the powers that be to find and publish more “Langstons”? That’s the real issue.

    1. Zora Neale Hurston would turn over in her grave if she knew Tyler Perry was invoking her name in support of the woman-hatred he puts forth. She told Southern stories with humor and integrity, capturing the verve and nuance of Black dialect and Black culture. Moreover, Zora was a trained anthropologist, so she took great care to render her stories with humanity. Janie was a sexually self-possessed Black woman, who left one husband to run off with her lover. In a Tyler Perry movie, she’d have AIDS and be found in church trying to exorcise her demons, for doing such rash acts. Let us not forget how he butchered our sacred text, For Colored Girls. He ain’t no Zora. Trust that.

      1. I didn’t see Celeste’s comment as implying that Tyler is a Zora. I saw it as raising the problematic issue of “high brow” vs. “low brow” writing. Zora did have a background in studying anthropology. In spite of her training and eloquence, Zora’s work was heavily criticized (by other prominent black writers (i.e. Langston Hughes and Richard Wright) as being “stereotypical” and work that catered to “white audiences.” They did not have the same training, insight and background as Zora and as such, they couldn’t connect with what she was expressing at the time. She wrote from her background/perspective; they wrote from theirs.
        Therefore, your take on how one of Zora’s characters would be depicted by TP is more than likely quite accurate given his background/upbringing in the church and the deep south, specifically NOLA which has the 3rd highest rate of AIDS cases in the nation. Apparently, the abstinence billboards and prayer are not working…

      2. The original commenter mentioned the Tyler/Zora comparison and I’m saying this is an unfair and completely unwarranted comparison. I’m well aware of Richard Wright’s ridiculous hateration of Zora, especially since he was from Mississippi.

        She did have drama with Langston Hughes, but not because he didn’t respect her art. They wrote the play Mulebone together.

        I also understand the attempt to distinguish between high art and low art. But Zora made “low art” dynamic and compelling. What Tyler does is “no art.” To put them in the same sentence is to fundamentally misunderstand and disrespect Zora’s work.


      3. @crunktastic: The point behind the comparison of the two has little to do with what anyone considers to be “legitimate” art(“dynamic/compelling) or “no” art(chitlin circuitry). The point of the comparison is merely to demonstrate how a person’s background, upbringing and training shape the way they create as well as their perspective on life. Because Zora grew up in an all-black environment where blacks wielded power over their own environment, she did not experience racism in the same way as Richard Wright did(being a Chicagoan); therefore, racism is not the central focus of her works, which pissed Richard and others off(who grew up in virulently racist environments). They viewed her work as being “safe” for whites, carrying no real meaning. She was not interesting in writing works that “victimized” blacks as she felt some of the writers of the time were doing when they chose to make racism the central focus of their work, which brings us back to Celeste’s point about how an artist is “simply doing his part, to tell his/her type of stories, to fill that type of void.”

      4. I’m so glad you share a love of Black literary history and Black literary figures. As do I, which is why your sense of needing to explain material to me that I have known for a nearly a decade at this point (and taught and written about), baffles me.

        Feel free to continue dialoguing with other commenters. Perhaps they will benefit from the lessons you feel compelled to teach in this space.

        I’m done.

        Thanks for reading.

      5. …so, you’ve taught about these issues before, yet still feel justified in investing so much energy in personally attacking TP and his “non-art”? So basically, anyone’s art that differs from your politics or taste is a viable target for attack. Got it.

      1. Interesting also that your handle needs to tell us how your body should be objectified. Great way to buy into patriarchy, LeggyLadyus.

  41. Dear Crunktastic,
    This was fantastic, as usual! Love that you’ve given me all the reasons I need to act like that production doesn’t exist. It’s kind of astounding, really, that we’re still having to shoot this stuff down in our “post” everything age. Whew. Thanks for having the stamina to deal with it all in such a high-handed and analytical manner. Peace, Guthrie Ramsey, MusiQology.com

  42. My problem with Tyler Perry is… he doesn’t respect our intelligence!! We are intelligent enough to see that he throws together bits and pieces of his other creations as well as borrowing from others. I can’t condemn him for anything else. He’s doing something no one else is… He employees black people!

  43. Fantastic piece.

    I continue to struggle with the “entertainment” vs. cultural work question while knowing, in my heart, that “entertainment” CANNOT exist outside of the precepts of knowledge production. In other words, “entertainment” cannot stand alone as such. It has meaning. Entertainment is about meaning making, it dips into our collective consciousness, and projects itself onto the world. Entertainment is not finite. It is perennial.

    Labeling something as “just entertainment” gives me a license to forget. It allows me to disconnect the work from past and present realities. In this vein, entertainment can be reduced to 30-minute or 1 hour episodes, though these creations are connected to longer and larger manifestations. Many of them painful.

    @crunktastic’s commentary will, especially, make those of us who rely on the “just entertainment” argument more uncomfortable because if we didn’t have this cushion we would have to look at the cultural work, the lasting work, of this show.

    Bottom line, I find much of Tyler’s cultural work harmful to black women and harmful to black gay men. If you find his work a mere form of entertainment, cool. Enjoy. However, I can no longer do it.

  44. I did not watch nor do I plan to. If you don’t like something do support it. Tyler P productions are flat and one note always has been. Just because he’s black does not mean I have to support him. There are plenty PLENTY of other writers, producers who happen to be black I can give my time and money. I would rather help bring light to their projects then support something I don’t agree with. Do u accept BS because it something to have or do u look for something better and more satisfying

  45. Love your writing style and take on the show…I honestly did not see it and wondered about the rave and multiple responses through twitter that I saw regarding the show as I watched the Heat vs. Pacer’s game. I’m unsure if I will give it any time but I may try. I don’t think Tyler Perry hates Black women and believe your point that he and Oprah are willing to “pimp the “urban demographic” for ratings and money” may be the root factor. There’s no secret that for some drama filled shows and realities seems to triumph quality. Hey, everyone has a right to like what they want. Yet, it does not does not seem that Tyler is rooted in the history of Black people but more focused on his own coming to light as he develop these various characters and by your take it seems the new series is a mash up of Imitation of Life and Diahann Carroll’s presence on Knots Landing. Perhaps, Tyler may need a list of suggested readings before creating future projects. Great entry!

  46. Wow, can we say “let’s not ever criticize the black man” comments I’m seeing in here? Never mind that said black man is perpetuating all the worst stereotypes about black women, don’t criticize tha brotha. Really? So as a black woman with black female nieces I’m just supposed to shut up and allow this nonsense to continue for the sake of some false “racial solidarity”? What about misogyny in our community? Should we ignore that as well, in spite of the damage it inflicts upon black women? Maybe you’re okay with being labeled or calling black women “bi*ches” or “hos”, but I’m not and will never be.

    The bigger problem isn’t just Tyler Perry, but Hollyweird, which seems to only have room for one black director du jour. At one point in time it was Spike Lee, then it was the Hudlin Brothers for about a moment. What we really need is more black people behind the camera, creating diverse images of the black community to counteract all the buffoonery of Mr. Perry. Thankfully, there’s Issa Rae so I don’t have to be insulted.

  47. Why you people are never supportive of any work of his, damn.
    You only focusing on the black side of the show,how about the white story line within.
    Probably you didn’t watch the show,your ignorant self just saw the thrillers and that’s it., talking shits about people is all most of your bloggers write about,your never write something productive to society , nothing that people can learn from and your climes to be supportive.

  48. I see Tyler’s characters as real life. These are women in real life; women in all communities: black, white, latino, oriental, etc. I don’t think there is a dislike of black women. He and his writers are just portraying what they see, know, understand. They just using black cast. If these women were white instead of black there wouldn’t be this uproar of jow he’s portraying women… people would say he’s a “sell out” for only using white actresses. TP plays and movies and shows usually have a wide variety and wide range of characters, character traits, and character flaws. So WE have to stop looking at everything as a negative (becasue like it or not those characters can all be found in ALL racial/ethnic groups on this planet) and look to the positive. KEEP IT REAL. I bet we all know of someone like each character on every one of Perry’s works. Think real hard. Thats real life

    1. Just a quick note: the proper way to refer to Asian people is not Oriental. (The equivalent would be calling Black people Colored.) You can refer to them by country of origin (Korean, Japanese, Chinese, etc), as Asian, South Asian, etc, etc.

      Thanks for reading.

  49. I think that I’m riding the fence. I can understand what people mean when they critique Perry’s work (the way it has been done in this article) and I’ll admit that I actually enjoy some of his movies. The thing is, I don’t have the same opinion as others. I see how his movies can be a problem and how they aren’t a problem, if that makes sense. I see his movies/shows as a depiction of what actually takes place in society or what he experienced earlier in life.
    I’d also like to say that, if his movies depicted men as the lead role with some of the same issues, people would be saying that he hates black men….

  50. My sister called me at work to rant about the negative portrayals of Black women on the show and she sounded very pained, upset and frustrated that the same stereotypes are being recycled over and over again. I, however, was not surprised to hear that Tyler Perry had once again did a disservice to Black woman imagery by his character portrayals. I have not seen the show and honestly, by looking at the previews, I knew the show was going to be a re-hashing of old stereotypes. My sister’s review and your reviews confirm my initial assumptions. While, I don’t think characters that portray Black women should always be “respectable” (unrealistic because everyone has a past and/or flaws that are not so respectable) I agree that characters should be complex and multi-dimensional and not confined to the one-sided tropes that stereotypes represent. I also feel that Black artists should not bear the burden of having to “uplift” images of Blacks by always creating positive and respectable characters either.

    Tyler Perry is in the movie business to make money, therefore, I know he will appeal to the mainstream by engaging the stereotypes they are comfortable with consuming even if it is at the expense of alienating his original fan base. The only way you can express your displeasure with Tyler Perry and his stereotypical images of Black women is to cease going to his movies or watching his television shows.

  51. I didn’t watch the show. I tried to DVR it and my DVR jumped off a bridge. Anyway, I agree 100%. I despise anything Tyler Perry as the weakest, elementaryish kind if writing and it bothers me deeply that Oprah is always up in his face. I be thinking, “Is she really enjoying this or does she just wanna help a brother out???” I could write a book, but really, you said it all. LICH!!!

  52. I think it’s funny how all the “villainous” females in Tyler Perry movies are light skinned, successful, thin, lawyer types who are always portrayed as high maintenance or stuck up. Then, along come the dark skinned women, with their tales of woe, e.g., the hooker with the heart of gold who just lost her way in life because some man did her wrong or she was molested by a relative (aka the “Oprah”). Then she gets schooled by Madea or gets some church. The end. He’s trying to show how much he loves his culture by redeeming the darker and heavier people in every movie. The light skinned women deserve to get dumped at the end for being to controlling or too uptight, which is really because they are too skinny and too light. The fat, dark women are always more pious. (“PTL”) Stereotypes much?

    TP is clearly a self-hating homosexual which is why he hates women and gays. His movies… suck.

    If you read between the lines, his successful characters always get punished for being successful. Diary of a MBW- The rich male lawyer hubby- was a two-timing pr*ck with an entire side family. He gets paralyzed (god punishes him, naturally). While the blue-collar welder (Shamar Moore) was the God-loving good guy.

    In that other TP movie that was just as bad (can’t remember the name of it. They’re all the same.) The rich sister is anal-retentive, so her hubby screws the hoe lil cousin, who is a hot mess, but darker. The rich people are always the bitchiest. The hot messes always get laid. Yawn. Boring.

    The movie with the 4 couples- The dark, fat wifey gets dumped by her two-timing man, for the skinny, light-skinned materialistic woman. But it turns out ok because the fat, dark woman meets a “good” black man who is a single, childless, jaw-dropping, hunk. Why? Because they both love Jesus, of course, so they deserve to be happy.

    The moral of allll his movies – The dark, fat women deserve to be loved the most, because they are the true archetypes of the culture. The thin and light skinned ladies deserve to get thrown under the bus, because if you are thin and/or light skinned, then you are a materialistic, manipulative b.

    Of course Oprah gives him a platform. He panders to her worldview.

    1. Since you seem new to the space, I’ll just caution against your thinly veiled sizism in this space. As the dark-skinned, fat author of this post, I find your discussions of colorism here, relevant, if slightly off-base. But you will not be allowed to disrespect people of size here, because that ain’t how we roll.

      So if you see yourself as a champion of light-skinned, slim sisters to the exclusion of all others, this probably ain’t the blog for you.

      I’ll let other commenters dialogue with you about your assumptions about the relationship between size and colorism.


      1. I disagree with the notion that her discussion of colorism is off base. We are able to acknowledge that Tyler Perry often makes dark skin black men the villains while making like skinned black men the saviors. He does the opposite for black women. Generally, dark skinned women are the salt of the earth in Tyler’s films. Decent, kind-hearted, family oriented women who can’t catch a break in life. While light skinned women tend to be gold-diggers, heartless, and/or bourgie women who think themselves too high and mighty for their own families or communities. And I don’t think this is because he’s trying to challenge or subvert colorist stereotypes, I think it’s just that, like dark men, he simply has a problem with light skinned black women.

        I am a light skinned black woman myself and I’ve always noticed this theme in Mr. Perry’s films.

      2. Diary — Kimberly Elise (Dark-skinned or brown-skinned and slim, a bitch to Shemar Moore and not the salt of the earth)
        Family Reunion — Rochelle Aytes and Lynn Whitfield (dark-skinned or brownskinned, slim, make terrible choices and need Jesus and a good man or in Whitfield’s case straight up evil villainous)
        Daddy’s Little Girls — Gabrielle Union (total bitch/slim not fat/ and definitely dark-skinned)
        Family That Preys — Sanaa Lathan (total bitch/slim not fat and definitely not light-skinned)

        Why Did I Get Married? — Tasha Smith (Dark-skinned/ bitchy/ slim)
        I Can Do Bad — Taraji Henson (brown-skinned, selfish, etc)

        I could go on. But let’s talk fact not mere supposition. None of these women fit this argument about colorism. Period.

  53. As a budding Womanist ally, and openly bisexual black male, I found The Haves and Have Nots to be something of an enigma. It is amazing to me the amount of stereotypes found in the first 30 minutes! Sexual stereotypes play the biggest role it seems with even the closeted Dr. being portrayed as the “lusting brute,” whose presence is always around his white prey, in this case, the rich, white boy/booty. I focus in on that because it seems to tie the historical black brute figure, who was the catalyst for the southern tradition of lynching (im from, attended college, and live in southern towns that still have their lynching trees standing!), with the modern day hatred of LGBTQIAism. I must agree with the comment that Tyler Perry is dangerous, not just to black women, but to black LGBTQUIA peoples as well!

    As for his portrayal of women..I think this article summed it up perfectly! The whole family of black female stereotypes were on display last night! Mammy (Hanna’s disgust for her daughter, but seeking to protect the white folks), Jezebel (Candace screwing her way into the white mans world), and Sapphire (Veronica, the over stepping, mouthy, dare i say it..bitchy, emasculating, untrusting black women) were all present and accounted for! There was also a bit of welfare queen/baby momma (Candace where IS your child?) in the mix as well! All we were missing was tragic mulatta (If Candace keeps on raping Master..I mean Judge Cryer..then she just may make an appearance!) I wonder if Perry knows just how damaging his portrayal of black women truly is? I mean, it’s just so blatant that anyone with any knowledge of the history of black women should cringe to even hear the words Tyler Perry! I have nothing against Mr. Perry himself, he seems like a genuine guy, but this, in the words of my grandmothers’s proverbial 99 1/2, just won’t do!

  54. While I agree with much of the criticism of the show (I think it’s trash to be honest), some of the charges on Tyler Perry are a bit unfair and a couple are outright lies.

    First and foremost, Tyler Perry does not hate Black women. Surely you don’t believe that. It’s a provocative title that has successfully served its purpose.

    The reality is that some (if not most) of the most important people throughout his life have been Black women, and is his core audience that he has chosen to continue to entertain. So no, he does not hate black women.

    Tyler Perry’s work can be largely likened to afterschool specials containing heavy-handed themes with the intention of being able to draw a wide audience. This has been a key to his success. I would be hard pressed to find films these days that I can take 3 generations of people to, and everyone can have a good laugh and leave equally entertained to some extent. This is why his characters tend to lack depth. That being said, I haven’t been supportive of his work for some time (apart from Good Deeds, which was decent), because I too have grown tired of the same themes.

    So I agree that his work should not be compared to those of the directors/producers/writers you likely favor because, skill-level aside, the intentions are completely different.

    We have to learn to take things for what they are and move on. Dissecting Tyler Perry as a person is quite frankly a waste of time.

    I do find it curious that you defended your love of Scandal straight away, given the surface-level similarity between Olivia and Candace. In my opinion, Olivia’s character is no better than Candace, simply because Olivia has a better career and at first glance, a somewhat better conscious than Candace. There’s no need to try to make your reasoning for loving Olivia’s character any deeper than what it actually is. We all have guilty pleasures, and we all subject ourselves to some level of trash at some point, be it film, TV, or music (see the post referring to Kelly Rowland and K. Michelle’s latest efforts)

    And while you charge men with having more of an issue with Olivia’s racial choices (and I will agree and whole-heartedly admit that I am not entertained by old white men getting their rocks off on beautiful black women), I strongly doubt that ladies would have the same adoration for Olivia if the Fitz and 1st lady characters were Barack and Michelle-esque. Let’s all be honest.

    1. Question: If TP don’t hate black women then why isn’t he married to a black woman with a black family, If he had a family he would probable rethink that foolishness he is trying to upgrade on the wide screen.

  55. did not see the show because mostly every tp movie that i’ve been duped into seeing/watching has left me feeling unfulfilled – based on what you have so aptly recited here AND that is that the character and story line and storytelling lack DEPTH for my personal taste. i am no fan. i am happy at what he’s accomplished but NOT a fan of most of his work (for colored girls is probably the one exception…oh, and that scene in why did i get married when jill scott’s character is at the top of the mountain crying… i LIVED that, so i felt it). but i digress….. mostly THIS nail has been hit on the head!

  56. Did not think the show was great. Has the look and feel of a daytime soap opera. They need to lose the soapy background music, upgrade the script, lighting, scenery. Oprah and Tyler have more than enough bank to put on a show of better quality. Maybe they should call Shonda Rhimes to learn how it’s done. “Greys Anatomy, Scandal, Private Practice” All 3 successful. I’ll still tune in to see if it gets better. Another problem with this show, so far, I must say, the characters are so superficial. The white matriarch seems nasty, unhappy and condescending, her best friend is just rude and obnoxious. The drug addict son, is simple and angry at the world, the daughter seems naïve. The black family….well the matriarch seems to have no strength of character among her children, the daughter is a prostitute with a child… why is she hooking? Where is the baby? The son is a blue collar guy, nothing wrong with that. But why can’t his ambition be to own a fleet of tow trucks instead of just one? Maybe it is, we just don’t know. I forgot the son of the wealthy black folks. Good profession, good guy… and he’s gay. Nothing wrong with that, but why is he secretly lusting after the drug addicted rich white boy? It makes it seem as if gay men lust after every man gay or straight. I mentioned Shonda Rhimes, in her shows, all the characters have layers to their personalities. They are more than what you see. It makes the characters more real and understandable. This show is just too simple. It needs work and I hope it gets better, it’s just 2 episodes, but I hope that Tyler and Oprah can see the flaws in the show and fix them.

  57. I do not agree with the analysis because I think people are making too much of a television show that is clearly for entertainment purposes. If you don’t like it change the station or simply don’t watch it. I’m so sick of everyone hating on Tyler Perry. No, he is not the best filmmaker or producer but I feel he is doing as good a job as his white counterparts. White filmmakers/producers do not get all the “hate” or heavy criticism that Tyler does. I wonder why? If “The Haves or Have-Nots ” was produced by a white man, I wonder would there be such a deep analysis. Stop hating on Tyler and allow him to utilize the gifts and talents God has given him!!

    1. Having an opinion is not hating, I wish we could discuss thing a little deeper than “your hatin”. When you go to a movie, do you discuss with friends whether you liked it or not? That’s all most of us are doing. The show has flaws, many have pointed some of the flaws out as I have. Every criticism is not hating, Those of you calling the criticisms hatin, suggest we turn the channel. That’s a good way to keep a show on the air, don’t you think. It seems most of us are saying, the show can be better, and there is nothing wrong with saying that.

  58. I have no idea what show this is of TP, and I know I never will. And in this instance I can say “never”. I use to heart TP (heart only, tried to obtain respect for him as a black man trying to do his thang, but it never happened). I watched Madea’s until they went out of style for me, and they did way sooner than I expected. I’ve glanced at a few episodes of The Browns, because my relatives like that shit, yet as far as I am concerned TP has a lot of issues yet to surface. For one, I honest DO NOT think that the brotha has any reliable nor respectable attributes as a director/writer. ALL his shows, theater/plays, etc. have the same theme. Some woman is weak and needs healing, be it from a stronger man or god. Now dont get me wrong, to each their own but the continuous same plot is sickening, boring and quite ridiculous. I wish my black folk did not watch his stuff because, to me, its stagnant. It teaches us stagnancy. I mean our children, nieces/nephews, our folk watch all this crap. His characters are always speaking like they’re from back in the day, as if to say black people (as a whole) are still on the same plains. Makes it as though STRONG BLACK WOMEN aren’t doing things for themselves, and and when they are they are seen as bitches (and not from a positive perspective. and yes there are positive bitches out there. me.) He drew the line with me when he had any say for the film Precious. I read the novel PUSH when I was a junior in high school, I remember after I’d finished reading it I told my teacher someone should make this into a movie. I never expected it to be someone of the likes of TP. I dont mean to dog the dude, but when/if I can tell someone to their faces (no I have not had the opportunity, but I sure as hell would do it.) that I have ZERO RESPECT for them, then the issue has reached a new level. Again, I am not okay with the victim roles all the damn time, nor the god theme every damn time either.

    How he has become the pillar of current “black film” is of mystery to me. I’m a hardcore, diehard Spike Lee fanatic. And yes I know Spike has also his own issues, each one of his films touches on different aspects of black ppl and black history, poc in general. I always feel as though he leaves the endings to tales open for viewers to gather their own opinions, and constructive dialogue. The only dialogue I tend to be able to muster up about TP is that I wish ppl weren’t so drawn to his “skill”. And then if I feel it deeper, I babble on a bit more ^, lol. So not only is his portrayal of black women damaging to black ppl, to audiences who aren’t black and their views of black women, and to our young black women, it is also damaging for himself. As far as I’m concerned he leads and leaves to positive trail line for his someday history. When I have my own children and I direct them to films that speak on positive aspects for women, black ppl, ppl of color, religion, so and so forth I will not be calling out TP, I mean I JUST WILL NOT. Spike Lee, F. Gary Gray, Antoine Fuqua, The Hughes Brothers, John Singleton. And yes some of these directors don’t get big talk because their films aren’t full of superficial drama. And yes some of their films may be hard to watch, do to violence, language or the other. Yet, characters dialogue represents them as characters written with education, regardless of how much. You also have, Gina Prince-Bythewood, Angela Robinson, and Kasi Lemmons (Eve’s Bayou=all kinds of powerful strong black women up in it). And I know there are more which I can not think of at the moment. If you got them, share’em, lawd knows ppl need to feed their minds, not brainwash’em.

    So I can not say with full knowledge, or proof, that TP actually hates black women/women. Yet, I do think his films/shows speak for themselves. Which does not reveal very much power for black women, especially none of the ones sitting at home watching that shit.

  59. First thing, If not for Tyler Perry this would not be here! Second, Oprah nor Tyler owe this writer or Black People anything!! Third, I watched it and recorded it so I can watch it again, and enjoyed it! It was entertainment! simple and plain and funny as all get out. And it was real as far as I see it! Maybe you and these other people think you all are your jobs you do, Ummm NOT! It does not make a difference what you do so maybe you should not worry if the mother was a maid or the son wanted to own a tow truck, (Which is not true, He want’s to own a Towing Company) SMH! And I am Black, so don’t try that you all are different ish with me. Maybe Tyler hit some nerves! And Black women crying foul cause ya’ll really do sell your self, the black women saying there so much more than that are the same one’s who have ate white guy’s seed’s like it was water after not having water for month’s! And a lot of black men are on the down low! And again Tyler nor Oprah owe none of you anything, why don’t you go buy some Google Glass and record your life and see how many people watch it? Zero! besides you and the people clownin you! And last but not least like someone else said, you do not think Like Oprah or Tyler! They own something, and writing a blog ha ha is not owning diddly! You do not own this site nor WordPress which I had to log into to leave this comment, so this Article is crap! While “The have and have nots” Is a good show and I cant wait to watch next weeks episode! and every episode after that!

    1. There is something called uniqeness and people have a right to take a stand against foolishness. The nerve he hit with me is potray black women as bafoons on the widescreen. I am married to man (he is not on the downlow), currently in line to receive a PhD in Clinical Psychology, have 2 children (girls). However I realize people like TP and Oprah are making this impossible for a lot of other people to attain with their recycling of negativity of black people. I don’t own a studio either but I am a woman of God and he has blessed me with common sense not to defend people who are working against me and my kind. As a matter of fact this site is much more informative than TP and Oprah will be. How can either of these people influence anyone when they don’t have spouse or families. TP don’t even have a wife and Oprah don’t even have a husband. That is Pitiful! This is not who Black people are. No one is Jealous of those two miserable people. That is so childish for them to sit up on TV and call people haters. Black People Wake Up, Stand Up, and Stop Let “any” immoral wind come by and lead you.

      1. @Political Justice: Heterosexual, married +2 children is NOT the only viable definition of family. To characterize any person who’s part of a family that doesn’t meet this criterion as miserable is short-sighted, to say the least. To imply that only married folks are worthy of possessing power and influence in every arena of life is baffling considering the fact that Jesus, Paul, Dr. George Washington Carver and a WHOLE lot of notable, influential people were NEVER MARRIED.

    2. I know exactly WHO I AM as a STRONG BLACK PERSON (queer). I dont need Oprah nor TP to be role models of any sort for me. And please dont get me started on Oprah. I admit when I was young, preteen, I totally looked up to her. Watched them on tv like life had just began that moment, every time. Oprah was a beacon of hope for me when I was younger. I mean back then all I can really remember on tv like that was Oprah and Whoopi. (can someone remind me if there were other black faces on tv as much when Oprah first came about?) Like someone else stated here, after awhile when you’re trying to stay up in that predominately white media world, ppl tend to do what they have to to stay up. Simply said.

      (I actually dont watch tv really, at all…cartoons, some movies. tv has been too much reality for folks who dont know real realities.) So I also dont necessarily have to be at the television for the duration of my life to see strong black ppl. Yes they are Crunk, they are out in communities making differences, they are lesbians teaching power to young black children(mostly young girls). What these TP movies, and that bullshit Oprah currently always has on her show…is simply bullshit. That’s just truth. I guarantee you there is no jealousy over here. I’m not much on lying so if there was jealousy or envy or anything of the like I WOULD ADMIT IT WITHOUT A BLINK OF MY EYE(S)!!! And yes I do think I am my job. I am currently starting up my own business, in addition to working with a friend of mine. Laid back schedule and I am my own damn boss, regardless of how slow my business is taking off. I love what I do and most importantly I am making sure that my community of BLACK FOLK know that I am doing what I do so to educate them and myself, continuously. See the difference with me, and anyone-because there is only one Rhae, is that I never forget where I come from and how my ppl got me here, that I am not here to knock another person down YET I will be honest (positive criticism-given/received). AND AND I won’t ever sell my brothas or sistahs out in order to make a little bit here and there. Aint my style AT ALL!!!

      And yes I own something, I own Me. I am not controlled by media, internet, technology, etc…as a matter of fact I am too damn hippie. But I have to stay current somehow, again that is until I leave the grid.

      jusRhae<<loving me most importantly, strong intelligent sexy cute powerful important queerass two-spirited blackass, ME!!!

      1. Sorry for the delay, but here is my reply to you, ( thanks for even replying, nothing wrong with a civil back and forth) Political Justice you say your husband is in line for his PHD, well good for him, that’s great I was just in line for a MC D L T at Mickey D’s ha ha. But seriously dropping educational degrees is not impressive, as that has been used by people since the beginning of time to separate and make others who are intimidated by a persons pedigree feel lower of less than. I do not have a PHd or Master’s but If I wanted one, I have the mind and determination to get It, but would never drop that, as you either like me for me, or you don’t. Like you married your husband when he did not have one, not you do not have a degree so I can’t marry you. ( I hope that’s how it went ; ) ) And being married has nothing to do with If Tyler or Oprah makes good characters or not so you lost me on that one. That is whats right for you, and you should be married if you have two children, but you never said they were your husbands children!Any hoo. @ JusRhae you said queerass, so to your queer ass! ha ha. I never said anyone should look up to them or anyone else for that matter. You misunderstood the “think your your job” I meant or should I say should have said, those who want people to respect them for the career they have chosen. I have been I the medical field over twenty years and I am me not the occupation I have performed in various medical positions whether in the civilian sector or the Armed Services, unless you need to know I do not care if you know as It tells me more about YOU then If I told someone and then It’s like oh for real! Know what I mean? And I own my own (small ) business also but I do not tell people that either as why does it matter you either like me or you do not. Any way I will watch this weeks episodes of ” The have and the have nots ” and “Love thy neighbor” I already watched the first episodes over again, and I laughed just like I did the first time. But hay, maybe it’s just me, as I went to see After Earth over the weekend and I liked it. But critics trashed it, sooo. To each is own!

  60. I think TP’s films, which have more time for character development than t.v. shows, have been quite supportive of women. I also think his work tends to deliver positive messages of hope and inspiration at the end of the stories. Presenting characters behaving badly, lacking depth, or stereotyped is often part of the process to get to the message, or to see the character change and develop over time. Perhaps in the case of tv we don’t get to see these changes, character depth, or message coming through until more episodes are produced and the story progresses…

  61. Crunktastic, with the exception of the Richard Pryor show, all that Reuben listed are films so I’m not quite sure what you mean when you say you”ve watched an episode or two. And please don’t let the fact that something has a vintage prevent you from checking it out. Lots of things occured before you were born but it doesn’t mean you can’t learn about it, particularly since you’re a cultural critic. Being familiar with black cinema — past and present — will only add heft to your POV.

    1. I’ve watched many of the movies Reuben mentioned and a few episodes of the shows he mentioned as well, when I’ve caught them on tv from time to time. I value history deeply, since it gave me the kind of historical context to know what is so wrong with Tyler Perry’s stuff. But in terms of moving forward, telling everyone to watch stuff older than them, just practically is not a solution.

  62. I was not gonna a watch it at all. You description of what happen in the show was so horrifying I have to watch it. Just so I can get my knowledgeable clown on too! Thank you for you writing. I will read more.

  63. To those who have read this, but have not seen the show “The have and have not’s” I am a straight black male, It is shot like a soap opera, and I do not know id Tyler wanted to be funny, but I have not laughed so much since dave left the air! It’s soooo funny! And candy ( The prostitute, Student) is soooo fine! man! Do your self a favor and watch this show! I bet within 5 min’s you will be like, Oh no they did not!?!? This is classic comedy!

  64. Tyler Perry is a great film maker but I feel he don’t get enough credit from the African American community. Tyler Perry took all of his shows to the OWN network. The reason why I say the African American community lack in giving Tyler Perry his credit because they don’t research his accomplishments. Tyler Perry is the first and only African American to own a production studio. He is also the only producer that writes roles just for African Americans Actresses and Actors.
    I feel the African American need to stop with all the hate towards Tyler Perry work. One of the biggest things I hear from the community they say OMG Tyler Perry movies are so poor written and predictable. They always say Tyler Perry write roles about emotionally beaten black women and men. I always tell people that come to me speaking bad about Tyler Perry work, please don’t support him if don’t like his work. People can say what they want about Tyler Perry new show Have and The Have Nots was seen by 1.8 million viewers on OWN. That was a record for the OWN network so congrats Mr. Perry and Oprah Winfrey.

  65. If this show was made by a white person, half of you defending TP would be enraged at the stereotypical, pathetic, dated depictions that this show offers of black women. Why is it we feel the need to defend something we know is very poor because it comes from one of our own? Support is important within our community but its also important to recognise when something is just shit. Black women are so negatively depicted in the media over and over again and shows like this just re-inforce those bullshit stereotypes.

  66. I guess it didn’t take long for Tyler Perry fans to come out of the woodwork with their “he employs black actors,” “ya’ll are just hatin” arguments. Fortunately most of can see the stupidity of such arguments. For starters, so what if he employs African American actors. Yes I realize we need more representation on mainstream television, but what’s needed are complex and nuanced characters. Like it or not, TP is incapable of writing such characters.

    Also the “stop hatin” arguments. First of all, are you supposed to be the hater police? Just because you’re a fan of his works, that doesn’t mean other people are. Also just because he’s black and employing black actors, that doesn’t mean he should be immune from criticism. Realize that just because people don’t like his work, that’s not a personal attack on Tyler Perry nor his accomplishments.

    To address the post, I agree wholeheartedly. I’m not surprised by the portrayal of black women. Half the time, they don’t have any redeeming qualities. He’s also notorious for creating these false dichotomies. You have the upper class black woman vs. the working class black woman and doesn’t even bother to create a middle ground. At least with Scandal, we have a black woman (Olivia Pope) who’s more nuanced and complex. Yes, she’s having an affair with a married man, but at the same time she always tries to do the right thing and sometimes even makes mistakes. She’s smart and accomplished That’s a lot more than I can say about any character written by Tyler Perry.

  67. SMH! I googled “The have and the have not’s ” to find out after seeing it what was being said, that’s how I found this. I find it silly to charge any one person, with the job of satisfying every person who is black. But maybe we can get to the issue of why there is only one show, so few film writer’s producer’s, networks? If there were more, then Tyler nor Oprah would be held responsible for making all of black humanity happy! Why did you folks not say why wasn’t superman batman? Because there are so many white people making things a white writer can have a character who doesn’t satisfy everyone because there are so many movies and tv show’s made by white people you can find something that you can like. I am sorry to tell you Tyler perry hater’s he doesn’t have to be the all to everyone! Where are your movies? where is your tv show? Oh yeah that’s right your black so you get to do nothing nor contribute nothing but stones from your chair at the one’s who are doing. Years from now when there are many black networks and many black tv show’s and many black studios and many black movies, covering all kinds of different characters I so hope this silly conversation stops! Or maybe it won’t!
    As it stands a black person can’t make something that’s not real for entertainment because white folks and black folks and other races have become comfortable with saying all man, that ain’t even real that’s fake!
    Well yes, yes you are right, it is fake! but when White people do it, Blacks and other folks are amazed, Oh man did you see that it was amazing! ( You do know there is no Luke Skywalker? No Starship enterprise? Or anything else a white person has come up with!SMH Because its ok for white people to dream up things, but black people have to keep it real! It’s sad and makes no sense! I don’t hold Mr Perry responsible for making some righteous character to satisfy me! come on, really? And If it was all these great black women out there, where are the result’s? black teen pregnancy, black divorce rate, non married households, abortion, incarceration, High school and college graduation rates! Give me a break! Where are these great black women! Oh yeah that’s right let’s not talk about that stuff!
    So let’s talk about how to get more movies more tv show’s made! And also how do we let black creative people be just that! Creative people allowed to dream and create freely, without having the burden of satisfying everyone! Because sorry to tell you, Black folk have not made it yet! And the black people who are trying is givin the burden of being everything to everyone, because there black! Stop the nonsense please!

  68. I watched the show the other night more out of curiosity than anything else. I was not surprised about how my beloved sisters was being depicted. That seems to be the ongoing theme among both Black and White writers. TP is not by himself in my opinion. Shonda Rhimes and the writer(s) of Deception are not far up that totem pole. Before I explain this let me first say that TP’s show did both Black women and men a disservice. I saw nothing positive, strong, or intriguing about any of the characters. More disturbing are the people who continue to accept this as simply entertainment. It’s menticidal (mental suicide) and does nothing to advance the vision of our people that our children are being submitted to daily.

    I differ from this writer in one respect, as a Black man I am not disturbed by Olivia Pope sleeping with white men, I’m more concerned about the message this sends to young Black girls and boys. The white men in Scandal and Deception are shown to be Alfa males while Brothers with good jobs are shown to be to weak for these powerful Sisters. Relationships between these Black women and men are always in a state of conflict. While white men are demanding love and respect from these same women and getting it.

    Media is a powerful instrument in the destruction of our minds. I reminded about the study that year after year have young Black girls choosing the beautiful white doll over the the Black doll. If most of us would be honest and close our eyes and imagine Jesus we still see a white man. Messaging has become so sophisticated that we only see it when it is blatantly obvious as in TP”s show…

    While the show was a bust for me, I do like the fact that TP joined with Oprah to help solidify her network. God only knows that we Black folks aren’t tuning in and supporting our own network. Yes Oprah must do better to bring better programming, but she will never attract it unless she has viewers. But isn’t that the problem, we can’t compete with businesses outside our community because of a lack of support and revenue. Trying to save a dollar or make a dollar with everyone else but ourselves leads to sub par standards. Oprah shouldn’t have to settle for less and TP should be held to a higher standard.

    This Black male against Black female has to end. We keep carrying this over from generation to generation. We are all on this sinking ship and it will take us ALL to to fill the gaping wholes. Keep in mind that while we are caught up in this, everyone else is growing their communities.

    Asante Sana

  69. I watched it and will not watch it again it’s the same story as the movie he made????? The one where the white folks are rich, the black mother was the maid one daughter went to college and wanted the white boy her mother worked for, the black girl had a baby by him and left her husband only to lose it all in the end. Besides I’m so sick of him and Oprah showing nothing but slave mess in 2013

  70. As as a person who tries to respect the voice and work of others and a lover of Scandal, all shows of Shondra Rhimes, all things Oprah, and of who I believe Tyler Perry to be as a person and I had to comment.

    While there are comments that I do agree with there are a few that I don’t agree with concerning the writer’s comments of Tyler Perry’s work. I must first say that the writer seems justified in her disdain for TP’s new show (Have and Have Nots) if there was a rape scene in which a black woman rapes a white man as was stated. While this is something that is possible today if taking on a historical point of view and dialogue with his show at a time when black folks were maids for white families in the South then surely a black woman raping a white man would certainly not be fathomable let alone realistic. One major aspect of story telling is to be true to the time and characters. The creator of the work must submit to the truth about the characters he or she is has created and allow the characters to live and evolve and not be adamant about constructing them.

    Although the characters might not be what many may want to see I wouldn’t suggest that TP has an outright hatred for black women that the writer states. I don’t believe this is true. It is possible that he has a subtle subconscious mistrust in women that might stem from the abuse he endured and the fact that his mother stayed with his father in an unhealthy environment while he was beaten on the regular. Nevertheless, I believe TP’s inability to show complex women characters is more simply because he’s a man and does not recognize or understand the complexities of women. Consider that this is not something a man can do unless the man has the ability to properly analyze and understand women.

    As previously stated, I love Scandal and the complex, flawed but at times heroic characters the Shondra Rhimes shows bring but in all fairness one should not attempt to compare TP’s work to Shondra Rhimes’ work because she understands the complexities of women since she is a complex woman. Her life experience has been more diverse than TP’s which helps with her story writing and character development. Even still, one must also consider that while SR was the creator of three great shows which means the concepts were hers, she has a diverse team of writers for each show that bring different experiences and ideas to the show. As far as I know TP is still the sole writer on his projects which is why they are one note (or two) and oftentimes lack diversity and complexity.

    Either way, I wish Tyler Perry the best. I haven’t seen the show but based on what the show seems to be I will not likely watch regularly. I will however give it a chance by watching the first episode. I only hope that he evolves as a story teller and perhaps the first step is adding to his writing team because we humans tend to write about what we know and within our own level of understanding, creativity, and imagination.

  71. Patricia Hill Collins had it right when she talked about the “love and trouble” dynamic between black women and men. Sometimes men just don’t realize their sexism and how they use their privilege to demean and degrade black women.

    I can’t stand TP and every time that I try to give him a chance, he completely fails me. Thanks for doing the dirty work crunktastic.

  72. I don’t think Tyler Perry hates Black women at all and I don’t think the difference between him and Shondra Rhimes is all that great either either. I think her more polished. Tyler is a hack. And he is comfortable in his hack-ness. I don’t watch either of their shows.

  73. Sorry “Shonda” not “Shondra”. I will say at this point her fans are more annoying than his. Tyler fans know he is a mess Shonda fans think they are watching great art.

  74. TP is doing what Big (white controlled) Media has always done: he is reinforcing negative stereotypes of black people that white people are comfortable with. Even if the men seem to be more “positive”, they are still narrow enough to sit comfortably within a racist stereotype. When I saw “Temptation” I was so disgusted with the slut-shaming and AIDS stigmatizing. Even with that movie “Good Deeds” I was like wtf is going on? Deed’s strong, determined wife who had goasl outside of her and husband was portrayed as cold and callous while the other chick that he takes to Africa inthe end, who is clearly a hot mess is supposed to be seen as his saving grace. Now I have no issue with hot mess women being able to overcome hot messiness but with TP it is this never ending relentless imagery of black women and men in these hyper narrow spaces that seem to mimic the same spaces whites feel comfortable with seeing black people. And that’s wack. And Oprah co-siging all this wackery is just as wack. And we should push back on Oprah for this one.

  75. I think that we need to aim a little higher for that. So he employes black people to propagate damaging stereotypes…that makes it right? ::smh::


  77. I always like to give things a chance, particularly those with good intention. That’s why I decided to watch the show’s series premier. While I didn’t like the show for many of the reasons that have already been discussed, I do not think it’s fair to say that Tyler Perry hates Black women.

    Black Artists/Entertainers/Media Personalities/Social Commentators/etc, especially those on such platforms and in positions as he and Oprah, have very difficult jobs. What they do is on display and up for scrutiny at all times. That’s what they signed up for. But also, as human beings of a marginalized community, they also have a great deal of social responsibility. This is where the conundrum comes into play.

    So Tyler Perry is in a position where he can influence public discourse and essentially counterbalance the stereotypes that have been propagated against Black people in the media for MANY years. He has loads of money, loads of influence, employs Black people, and has his own means of facilitating his creative output, thus control over his art and image. Okay. BUT, instead he is perceived as perpetuating the very stereotypes that have been the bane of our existence. This is very much so true, but there’s another complexity there that other commentators have highlighted, which is that stories can only be told from one’s personal standpoint. Perhaps Perry lacks the conscious vocabulary and the political finesse to articulate a story where characters are socially progressive, complex, multi dimensional, and stories that are intellectually enthralling- all of the things we want him and others in positions like him to be and give us. That’s a justifiable critique, and one that I share. But is it fair to admonish him to such a harsh degree when he just may be incapable of telling stories in that way? And is it all his fault?

    I agree that the Black community needs more positive and complex representation in the media to counterbalance the gross saturation of caricature-type personalities, perpetuating the myths of homogeneity or that Black people are only of these few types of personalities. As an aspiring film maker/producer, I hope that I will one day be in a position bring more positive and diverse representations of people of color. But instead of demonizing people like Perry for telling stories in the way they know how, we should try to be more understanding of their stories. I personally don’t know enough about Perry to make or support claims that state that he hates Black women. From what I know of him, he was raised by women and has learned some of his most valuable life lessons from Black women. While there are many problematics to his Madea character, Madea is real to a lot of people. Many Black people have a Madea in their lives.

  78. Hi first time commenting….. I would only like to say that I do not believe it is black women that are paying Tyler the most money matter fact I’m pretty sure it’s the white people who are financing these works same as modern rap…. The content is blamed on black people, but it’s bought overwhelmingly by white people…… To give an example spike lee is a director that does not pander to stereotypes white people are comfortable with, and while he is a successful artist his films don’t pull in the same kind of money cause it’s mostly black money.

    1. Are you kidding? Tyler Perry is a self made billionaire who finances 100% of all his productions singlehandedly and uses Lions Gate only for distribution and marketing his product, where the hell did you come up with this crap. Spike Lee is notoriously self serving and constantly hitting people up to finance his projects black or white. He borrowed money from Oprah to finish Malcolm X just to later stab her in the back in one of his public tirades about several years back. This pisses me off. Wtf are you talking about? As far as only black people going to see Spike Lee films, not so at all You got that the other way around, Tyler’s niche audience is southern, black Christians from his first play until now, his audience became more diverse only maybe 3 years ago and that’s when he began having more characters of diverse backgrounds other than black. Perry is a man that has wisely invested in himself for over two decades instead of just being a hired hand. Meanwhile, Brad Pitt has produced a couple of documentaries with Lee ( meaning Pitt financed some of Lees projects). Stop making Spike “opportunist” Lee a champion of all black cinema, just stop it.

  79. Wow. I was just having this conversation with my wife. And I am so convinced that he has a pathology around black successful women, from whatever trauma and other experiences from childhood. I think he is using his medium (plays, movies, etc) to explore his feelings. But that in itself is not bad or good, but it indeed can be dangerous on a large scale due to his wide influence, audience, and the fact that there aren’t enough black directors, artists etc to see him as an individual. Unfortunately, he and his work represents blackness to so many in the mainstream media and society.

    I loved this article. Thanks for sharing!

  80. Black people are some real funny people. Sometimes we are so sensitive. Black comedian makes a white joke, it’s funny. Black person in sitcom makes a honky joke, it’s funny. Any time it’s the other way around, it’s racist. On TV, we only want to see black people portrayed in the most positive light. It used to bother me too when the “bad guy” was black, but you know what, it’s ART. Stop taking things so seriously!! We want to boycott anything on TV that we disagree with. We just can’t be pleased.

  81. I agree with most of what you said in your article, but think a deeper analysis is needed here. Scandal, at the end of the day, is not a “better” show than those recently introduced by TP, if the issue of representing the race relations between white men and black women in a historically accurate and non-exploitative manner, is taken into consideration. A show that uses race baiting to titillate and entertain with a “good” script, is arguably just as damaging to Black women and Black people, as one with a dumbed down story line. At the end of the day, I don’t think Oprah or Tyler are all that interested in telling well scripted stories that accurately represent or elevate the condition of people-of-African descent.

  82. This who thing is really sad. As a highly educated black man who has spent most of his career in the military, I have traveled the country and the world. I have lived in Europe and in Asia and have come to the same conclusions. Why is this still such an issue in this country? The very venom that is spewed in this article is the reason that highly educated black men such as myself are turned off by black women. I go to places like Germany and France and do not have all of this hate and criticism toward a black man. If you know anything about TP’s play”s or TV shows, he is writing about real people that he has either grew up with or have had their stories sent to him. Ot is amazing that the minute that someone put’s on blast REAL black life such as being ostracized because you are light skinned as my own mother was or dealing with real issue’s that still go on in Black American society such as a single mom with a bunch of kids by different daddy’s, black people cry fool like we do no wrong and that we have it all together. If you are tired of seeing some of the real issue’s that go on on TV then start with yourselves and change the way the the rest of society see’s us. Why is it that all this venom is spewed toward TP but nobody says anything about the graphic demoralization of our black women by videos on MTV and BET. I have been there with some of the criticism from black people because I am a educated black man who is not with a “strong Black Women” and I don’t care because when I travel outside of this country, I am just an American with a dark tan and I don’t have to put up with a culture who says that I have to act a certain way. The only way this is going to change is if black people stop being so critical of one another and grow up, come together, and change ourselves. Then maybe we will be just like Britain or Germany were we are all just Americans with a a dark tan and a deep heritage. P.S. (BTW if you do travel anywhere else in the world, that is really the way the rest of the world see’s us… we are all just Americans to them with a dark tan).

  83. What class is Tyler Perry is in himself? Not working class, my dear. So this idea that criticism of him is classist is ridiculous. He is only exploiting the working class for his benefit. The man is close to a billionaire. He has nothing in common with maids right now.

  84. I can’t begin to explain to you the brilliance of this article. Thank you for your eloquence. Tyler Perry has made a living and fortune out of exploiting poor black people problems. Poor black people cosign it willingly. He is mass produced cheap stuff like McDonald’s food. It is cheap, easily available and made for the masses but at the end of the day, you eat it every day and it will give you heart disease. Do we care? Do we not know better? I don’t know…

  85. We’re in similar boats. I wanted to give this show a chance because I’m a fan of soaps, but I got spooked when I saw TP at the end of the ad. This post saved my time and my sanity.

  86. “) On his best day and her worst day, Tyler ain’t even in Shonda’s stratosphere. ” YES. This blog and this post are much more compelling and concise than my ramblings. This is it.

  87. I imagined that I was TP reading these comments. Then I imagined him saying “Yes I did it again”. Laughing all the way to the bank. and in my opinion Oprah always caters to whats greater. It is always and will always be about the money. Sad but true.

  88. What I know for myself is all these people profit off our pain and its not just any one race. These people who make it easy for someone to turn profit from pain should be dealt with accordingly. A couple months ago I saw a website that tackled all of this and basically threw it out there. The people behind the scenes never slur themselves everyone else gets thrown under the bus especially our grandmas because most likely the went through it and how dare they. I say we take a stand as humanity and tell these fools to end this abuse on human kind/ We try to move on with our lives and the past gets thrown back in our faces along with other things. End the constant irritation of humanity once and for all. Everyone is hurting except those behind the scenes and those selling out. We need to bankrupt them. Stop blaming just end it. Don’t bicker amongst ourselves it doesn’t accomplish a damn thing get the force of the people and deal with this. Thanks for your time. Im for the people and I hope they are for me as well. Peace and Respect.

  89. Blessings everyone! I can see what the writer is saying. The stereotypical roles. Now, I love many of our Black Directors, Actors, & Producers. But why does it ALWAYS seem, that Black/Brown women have 2 be the maids, the black man has 2 be gay, drugs & jail, & babies everywhere!!! The Illuminati pulls the strings for many of these Directors/Writers!! It’s like they want us as, people of color 2 ‘stay in our places’. No matter, how much education we may receive, it is not deserved. When the truth of the matter; many of our White Counterparts are the main ones receiving ALL of these government benefits! But it is the ‘Monarch’ programming & we fall for it every time!! The Illuminati Controlled Media, sends a ‘Call & Echo’ response & we suck it in!!! Help us dear JESUS!!! It’s time for a upgrade in our thinking & roles!!! Be Blessed, JESUS is coming soon!!! 🙂

  90. Oo, boy, are you patronizing. Tyler Perry makes black women’s mistake hate for love? In your paradigm of black women as mental infants, maybe. I don’t live in that world, sister. And when, pray tell, did Candace rape ANYONE? Or is that the only way YOU can conceive ofsex between a poor black woman (living comfortably, but to you, once a poor Negro…) and a rich white man?
    “The maid’s” name is Hannah. Her character is fully fleshed out on the show. Funny how you focus only on her job. And to be so elitist as to say- I’m sorry- the word I was searching for is ignorant-as to say this woman sounds like she’s just off a plantation…I know about a hundred black women who speak like her, and they are bright people who deserve respect. One was my mom. She was an RN, well read, and raised a daughter who read Dostoevsky for fun starting at age 8 and another who graduated Harvard law school. SO DON’T.
    Whatever Perry’s personal views may be, he is making the gay character nothing but smart, kind, and sympathetic. What YOU don’t like is that he’s also sexual, unlike the neutered gay men we always see on TV.
    And all that junk about Oprah’s lifestyle and what you think Tyler thinks of it is about on par with water cooler conversation about The Real Housewives of New Jersey. You sound petty. The truth is you don’t know jack about either of them, nor do any of us,

    You have every right not to like some tv soap opera. But your feminist comments were both racist and unfounded.

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