“De nigger woman is de mule uh de world…”- Zora Neale Hurston
I grew up in a white suburban/rural community where I was one of a few black kids and the only one in my classes and social circle. In high school, we had this habit of waxing nostalgic for our not so distant youth in a way that made us feel older than we were so at a parties we’d often play songs from our childhood. Well once, Baby Got Back came on and I was rapping along as were a white boy and white girl. A crowd formed around them and folks were cheering them on for knowing most of the words while my flawless performance went unacknowledged. Looking back, I see clearly the messy contradictions of racism (and my own internalization of it) as white folks celebrated their proficiency in repeating a black man’s words of purported celebration of my curves that in general, made me invisible. My blackness rendered my rendition null and void as it was presumed I should be able to reproduce that lyrical dexterity on the spot. It was exceptional when they did it but par for the course for me.
And this is partly why Kreayshawn makes me mad. The White Girl Mob media darling blowing up the interwebs whose potential deal with Sony is making waves makes me angry in a way I haven’t been in a long time. Her appropriative swag is yet another reminder (not that we needed any more this month) of how little black women are valued in our society, even in genres we co-create. In a moment where cool is synonymous with swag, a particular manifestation of black masculinity, Kreayshawn’s dismissiveness and denigration of black women animate her success.
“It’s like tumblr made a video,” said one tumblrite, speaking of the white Cali hipster aesthetics of Kreyashawn’s Gucci Gucci. Replete with Indian medallion, black girl hair cut and color, black men flank her on all sides, lending their cool and legitimacy as she talks stealing bitches, smoking blunts, and realness. Catchy with no substance and ample “I’m so different from them other black girls,” Kreyashawn is the perfect accoutrement to the tortured misogyny of her friends and co-signers Odd Future. For her, calling women bitches and hoes is funny, a category she is somehow exempt from via her whiteness and sometimes queerness. She’s got swag because she fucks bitches too, though she’s quick to point out she’s “not a raging lesbian.”
I think “Hoes on My Dick” perhaps best captures my problems with Kreayshawn and those who dig her. About a year ago, comedian Andy Milonakis (Who you might remember from his brief MTV fame) and Rapper Lil’ B decided to parody rap music and made the satirical “Hoes on My Dick” which features the choice language “Hoes on my dick cuz I look like Madonna” or “Hoes on my dick cuz I look like grandma.” Anyway, we were supposed to laugh. Ha ha! Isn’t funny/ironic when they say misogynist things when they know it’s wrong? Kreayshawn took their track and made it her own adding her own lyrics, “rapped” (if you could call it that) with all due seriousness and folks love it!
As Crunktastic has already pointed out on this blog, the derogatory slang words used for women imply race. “Hoes” are black and the proverbial punchline (pun intended) for the LA hispster/hip hop mash up sound that music critics are lauding. The supposed *wink wink nudge nudge* associated with their misogynoir is what makes them so edgy and so real. The objectification of black women as a lyrical trope is what makes Kreayshawn interesting. Look at this white girl who talks like a black man! Isn’t she awesome?
And not that black women haven’t tried to appropriate a type of black masculine cool through a similar practice of denigrating other black women and expressing their allegiance to black men but they have not been as successful. Syd Tha Kid, DJ and beat maker for Odd Future is currently following this path and her queer black masculinity doesn’t seem all that queer when she speaks of women in the same derogatory fashion as her band mates.
Kreayshawn claims Nicole Wray, Missy and Aaliyah as women who inspired and influenced her sound but black women are rarely seen in her circle or videos. I’ve clocked two black women in Kreayshawn’s videos, one a silent love interest, and the other a silent hair stylist. In so far as black women are useful, they exist, though they never get to voice their own reality. It’s incredibly frustrating that the more things change the more things stay the same, that Zora Neal Hurston’s words still ring true today.
Special thanks to Alexsarah and CF’s Sheri & Whitney for talking through this with me!
Apparently Kreayshawn was on the brain today. Check out Clutch Magazine’s take.
All I can do is nod my head.
What is also interesting is that another white female rapper, Amanda Blank, who works collaboratively with MIA and Santigold (women of color), and raps from her OWN experience and sexual subjectivity, has been around for awhile and gets little to no mainstream attention.
And she IS actually good. I’m just saying.
http://www.amandablank.com
Awesome post! I wish I could give “kreayshawn” some credit for being a lyricist or individually talented artist. I simply see her as an industry puppet. She was made by the record industry and doesnt have the intelligence or care to understand how hurtful her mimicking and reinforcing of stereotypes of the people she “admires” is. I love my people and against what I want i occasionaly HAVE to play music that doesn’t inspire, enlighten, or encourage my people, but it represents our TRUTHS. For every thing lil Kim was that we didn’t like we had a lauryn..Mc Lyte..Latifah and gang of others to rep a balance of OUR dimensions. What does she represent…how easy it is to clown our ills and potentially make tons of money without having to be responsible for how it effects US. Capitalism at its finest. IF she were US I could almost accept it though I still wouldnt like it. No play will she get from me! The female vanilla ice is she. Let’s see what happens when her trend ends maybe she’ll see how it feels to be black unwanted and rejected, used and broken..AGAIN.
Listen, music is subjective.The fact is, younger people like crap like this & to be honest, it’s kinda catchy.I wouldn’t buy it, but obviously she has fans.And for this reason I truly believe if Kreayshawn were black ( or any race for that matter) the song would still be a hit.I think alot of her appeal has to do with her hipster style.Having said that I totally understand what the author of this article is saying,I just don’t think her theory for Kreayshawns popularity at the moment has anything to do with it. I guarantee you everyone will be saying ” what was that chick’s name” within a year because,as many people have pointed out,the talent just isn’t there.Peace!
Yeah – this video was definitely an insult to black women. How DARE she not put black women in the video?
This was also an insult to asian men! How DARE she not put asian men in her video?
This was also an insult to asian women! How DARE she not put asian women in her video?
.. etc..
My point: I hope Kreayshawn makes millions and you stay a salty hater for life, blogging about how the world is against you and your people.
for the record, CFC fam, this is a different So True.
i.e. not me. lol
i in no way want to be associated with this comment or viewpoint.
This article was spot the fuck on. As a black girl, I feel like if I were to do the same things Kreayshawn was, I’d be labeled a hoodrat. I wear bamboo earrings and I’m ghetto. She wears them, its swag. Brava on this article!
I know! This is what I instantly thought of when I first saw “Gucci Gucci.” I would never be able to get away with that behavior. My sister always denigrates “hoodrats”, but she loves Kreayshawn. If Kreayshawn were Black, she wouldn’t have even given the video the time of day. Ugh. This chick needs to disappear.
it sounds like the problem is with your sister.
Kreayshawn is a hoodrat.
No, she’s a wannabe.
I wonder is Ms. Hurston knew her words would still ring true 50, 60 years later? I’d never heard of Kreayshawn before reading this article. This is eye opening and I agree with everything written in this article. We have to continue expose these “artists” and hope to educate others before more acts like Kreayshawn come along and rise to mainstream fame.
I should say 50, or 60 years after Ms. Hurston probably expected things to “change” for Black women.
I’m glad someone else was able to articulate what I was saying in my tumblr post a week earlier about Kreayshawn and her appropriative use of blackness/black women.
-Luna, ancestryinprogress.tumblr.com
I’ve been waiting to read a good critique of Kreayshawn. This essay perfectly illuminated what rubbed me the wrong way about her Gucci Gucci video. It seems like she is performing some type of media creation of blackness and hip hop, it reminded me of blackface quite frankly. The weird thing is that I think the song is quite catchy and fun and I would probably love the song if it was performed by a black woman.
Thank you Moya! I hadn’t heard of Kreayshawn (did she make this name up to make fun of black names?) before, and this is great analysis of a growing trend. From the white rappers on SNL to the youtube sensations that “cover” rap songs, I haven’t been been able to put a finger on that which makes me want to cover my mouth after I laugh. As I’m typing this, Fergie is playing on my Ipad and I feel guilty for bobbing my head– not because I shouldn’t find pleasure in anything white, but because she is ripping off JJFad and I doubt they’re getting royalties. I am inspired to buy the original on Itunes now, so thank you.
Yes!! I feel the same way about Karmin, too.
YES! You took the words right out of my mouth. All of the hype around Karmin is definitely rooted in the same structure of Black female disavowal that Moya so clearly articulated. And we could surely add others to this list…
Karmin’s lyrical delivery is superior and her facial features are entertaining. To that extent, people enjoy watching her rap for many of the same reasons they enjoy watching Nicki Minaj rap. This Kreayshawn mess is just…rank pseudo-ironic coonery.
Um no Karmin is a singer, that rapped to ‘Look At Me Now’ by Chris Brown. Which she did just for fun. She even had the decency to change to lyrics to be less offensive. If the original song didn’t have so much cursing in it, she wouldn’t have changed anything. Except putting it in a females perspective.
Karmin is not in any way on the same level as Kreayshawn. Karmin doesn’t poorly immulate hip hop & black culture. She is just a singer who decided to do a video to Chris Brown’s “Look At Me Now”. All of the hype around Karmin is definitely NOT rooted in the same structure of Black female disavowal that Moya so clearly articulated. The hype around Karmin is nothing more than viewers giving credit where credit is due. It goes back to the party the author of this post was talking about. For some reason it is admirable for a white person to be able to flow & recite raps that we all know and love. Karmin does just that. And out of all raps she picked a song with Busta in it. I don’t know too many black ppl who can do what Busta does, let alone a lil white girl. So yeah, youtube viewers are giving her the credit she deserves…now Kreayshawn??? There is no explanation for her and I never really liked her. I totally agree with the author on Kreayshawn, but you all who tried to put Karmin in her category are totally wrong…smh.
All I can do is shake my head. Literally!!!!!!!
Also such a travesty!!!! Shaking my head!!
thank you for this.
ya’ll, let’s spread this FAR and WIDE.
people need to wake up forreal.
I agree that she gets more hits simply because she’s white. I agree with the Black woman/white woman double standard. I agree with “the derogatory slang words used for women imply race.” My issue lies in the idea of appropriating a culture. Sure, appropriation occurs, but who is to say that Kreayshawn cultural experience isn’t Black? On the same token, how would we describe a Black person disconnected from Black culture? Do we say he/she appropriates white culture? Do we say he/she is not Black?
The largest issue isn’t that Kreayshawn is getting exposure; it is that Black women do not get enough well rounded exposure. The internet burrows that allow the Kreayshawns to exist are not there for Black women, or at least not as cush.
Kreayshawn will forever and ever be a white female rapper. FOREVER. Plus, she doesn’t look like Jesus.
Word Leedowell! I think my concern though is that the appropriation doesn’t have to be disrespectful and I think hers is though it seems she doesn’t know it.
I know you rep LA all day! Growing up or even now, was it ok for white folks to use the n-word? What do you think about her style, which she claims as real original, is what danny reminded me Santigold was doing years prior?
One of the points I was trying to make is that Kreayshawn gets exposure because she’s white and people are drawn to the novelty of that. She has some good phrasing but I think folks are really drawn to her because folks are like whoa! who knew a white girl could rap like that? I don’t think folks feel the same way about black women who can flow.
Another thing I was trying to say was it seems women have to denigrate other women (read black women) to get put on. Nikki did it and a main part of Kreayshawn’s draw and she talks about it is the way she talks about women.
Also, what do you think about her legion of black male co-signers? When’s the last time folks have been like that about a black woman hip hop artist?
Trust. I agree, she gets youtube hits because she is white. I downloaded her mixtape and later found myself wanting my bandwith back. It was horrible! She’s not good. I do like “Gucci Gucci” however. I found her all Black male entourage a bit perplexing. I too wondered where all the Black women had gone. The last Black female Hip-Hop artist with this buzz before releasing an album was Nikki. Also, PinkDollaz got some buzz out here. I don’t too much care for them either. They both play in familiar paradigms that I dislike from musicians period. One can dislike the pizza and like the crust.
Funny, I was going to reference Santigold in my original post. She’s tried to distinguish herself outside of Hip-Hop/Rap/R&B, but mainstream media sees her and clumps her in.
Let’s fast forward a decade when Kreayshawn’s fame is only remembered in these old blog posts, and let’s assume that she was not acting; this is who she is. Also, let’s assume she never sends Black folk up the creek ala Madonna and in turns, ignores the brighter lights and fame. If all that happens, then how do we perceive her?
For the word nigger, there might have been non-Black folk who said it in high school. I know there are non-Blacks who say it now. (High school ended nearly ten years ago!!!) I stopped being part of my vocabulary in high school. I only use it for educational and satirical purposes. Frankly, I do not like it when Black folk use the word. I cannot get upset at other folk for using it when friends, family, and random Black folk on the street call me nigger damn near everyday.
I’m reminded of the article excusing Kanye’s misogyny because he’s opening up as Black man! I thought it was bullshit then, and I think it’s bullshit now. He nor Kreayshawn should have to use other people (Black women, homosexuals, etc. — though conservatives are fair game) as stepping stones. Still, Kreayshawn and similar artists, includes ODFWKTA (whom I find encouraging), do deserve an ear. We must remind them of what they are and are not doing. We can do that without condemning them. I think your post is a great example of that. You accurately critique, but allow her her right to exists. Hopefully someone sent her a link. In fact, I’ll tweet this at her. The hope is always that artists will use their powers for good…with the help of people like you.
http://www.crunkfeministcollective.com/2010/05/04/meeting-girls-where-they-are/#more-218
Thanks leedowell for weighing in! That’s super helpful! Yes. Time will tell with Kreayshawn. We shall see.
I say her cultural experience isn’t Black. I am from the Bay Area, know her and she was not raised in a black community, with black culture or with even a more than a tertiary knowledge of hiphop. She like many other queer and straight hipsters moved to Oakland to “keep it real” by taking over rental property (and jacking up the rents) and pretending to have Oakland street cred by virtue of their mailing address. The fact that white people including queer people give her a pass on her appropriating because she is white and sometimes ids as queer is batshit crazy. The issue is more than just Black women not get attention but that white and black culture both support white women appropriation of black culture and black women’s style and culture.
I am sick to my stomach. This is a caricature of Black womanhood – someone said blackface. Yes, that’s it…No need to paint your face, when you don the bamboo earrings, and flank yourself with Black men. Thank you for drawing attention to this.
This post is deeper than Kreyshawn. The whole hipster trend/community should have pissed off the entire Black community a long time ago for the same reason the author lightly illustrated in this article – that because she is a white girl and spitting the same rap trash as most Black men do she’s cool, but if a Black girl does it she’s a complete rat.
It’s the exercise of the white privilege, from her vocabulary in her songs to her out-the-studio antics. If you’ve seen/heard/read her interviews, she’s talking about doing “outrageous things” with her bitches (like trying to snatch Yung Berg’s chain, for example) like it’s totally cool, and people are ok with that.
To me, this entire attitude – the same street attitude from the hiphop/urban/inner city community – is prevalent amongst these hipsters who are, 9 times out of 10, from suburban/affluent/traditional and sometimes gated communities. Yes, it’s no secret that hiphop has infiltrated the burbs, so why has no one addressed the need for folks from the burbs respect the history of Black culture? Same goes for the hipsters who may or may not be from the burbs – they need to show that same respect! When will we, and by we I mean the Black folks who share the same neighborhoods and education as these hipster kids, start teaching them the ways to respect Black culture?
As smart as most of this community proclaims to be, for folks like Kreyshawn drop some trash like this and call it art is just disrespectful.
I meant to link another piece that does this work in particular but forgot. Please Check out Summer McDonald’s work on the hipster and blackness http://readpop.blogspot.com/2009/05/black-hipsters.html
Nice article! Have you heard of an emcee called Grip Plyaz? Yeah, he’s a little vulgar, but he has a song where he addresses the very same thing this and your article talks about – his disdain for hipsters acting like their fashion and swag is something new, as if Black folks in the 70s weren’t doing it already. Here’s a link to the song http://www
Additionally, I don’t hate on anybody who wishes to rock the skinny jeans or big gold hoops or care to rap about being a white girl growing up in East Oakland. I will hate on somebody who don’t care to acknowledge where they got their style from, whether they’re black, brown, white or whatever.
youre pissed because shes killing the game and youre stuck in front of your keyboard. she directed the video of lil b and andy, and she directs most of his videos. i believe it is you who are being racist for attempting to colorize an entire genre of music, sorry but white people are allowed to rap as well
Your argument is simplistic and clearly misses the point. But you are right; she is “killing the game.” And by that I mean, she’s sucking the lifeblood right out of it.
The author did not dismiss the legitimacy of white rappers or claim either explicitly or implicitly that they shouldn’t be allowed to rap. The problem is not white rappers, but white rappers who try to perform in a manner that they believe is “acting black.” Kreayshawn is offensive because she seems to think she’s performing some version of what it means to be black, which for her apparently means having an ethnic sounding stage name, wearing door knockers earrings and a “black girl haircut,” and saying bitch and ho, every other word. Frankly, her performance is also disrespectful to those white rappers, past and present, who are very talented and bring something to the hip hop game without having to quote unquote “act black.” Eminem and Invincible Detroit (present) and Beastie Boys and 3rd Bass (past) are some who come immediately to mind. And if you scroll the artist links on this site, which have been up from day one, btw, you’ll see a range of links to white female hip hop artists. So we’re not hating on the basis of race. And since we’ve clearly disproven your argument, why don’t you try, try again.
I’m well aware of her connection to Lil’ B. I wasn’t sure why her directing the video or his videos was relevant to what I was talking about other than to say that he too co-signs on her artistry?
This really upsets me, because she is making the whole ‘get drunk’ ‘smoke weed’ ‘do dumb $h!t’ characteristics something to be proud of. Yeah she is suppose to be all ‘hipster’ and that, but she is anything but! She is fake. I dont care. She is a fake girl, who claims to be real, rapping about having ‘bitches’ and ‘money’ yet if a black girl did that e.g foxy brown, lil kim, nicki minaj straight away they are all called hoes. Because they are black and female. She doesn’t even have any black females in her videos yet she is a FEMALE who has surrounded her self with BLACK culture and things (men and the music). She is just an example of the corrupted and double standards society we live in.
And its not about her being white that she ‘shouldn’t rap. It’s about the fact that if she was black, she would not be successful.
“And its not about her being white that she ‘shouldn’t rap. It’s about the fact that if she was black, she would not be successful.”
This! I think that about sums it up.
So why the hate on her specifically? Is it her fault that she isn’t black?
Yes. Thank You.
I saw that video and honestly thought it was a spoof.
Like, is she talking about Selling drugs? Really? Is this for real?
That’s something, but it’s not Hip Hop to me. Some deformed offspring maybe.
Sometimes, y’all be over-intellectualizing shit.
Really???
yeah. really.
How do you over-intellectualize shit? I’m just wondering, because I don’t feel the author is “over-intellectualizing” shit. She has a very valid point. Glorifying smoking weed, calling women “bitches” and “hoes”, calling out “Gucci Gucci”…I get enough of that being glorified by Gucci Mane…Who was recently admitted to a psychiatric ward. But anyway…You can never over-intellectualize shit when it has a valid point behind it. Stop thinking inside the box and you will see what she is saying is very valid.
In the past 2 days, I’ve read at least 6 articles/blogs about how this lil’ girl is the harbinger of the demise of hip-hop and Black cultures or some approximation thereof.
Being from Oakland, working in the music industry and (separately) with young people, I have actually had some contact with Kreashawn. Sometimes a white girl rapper raised in East Oakland is just that — a white girl rapper raised in East Oakland.
Now, i could write a dissertation about the cultural legacy of the Panthers and how the grand children and great-grand children of that legacy move about desecrating it, on one hand, and on the other hand holding tight to it in ways they could never understand. I could write about how a white girl who by circumstance finds herself in the midst of those great-grand children and that cultural legacy and how she might react to it…blah, Blah, BLAH… but, sometimes, a white girl rapper from East Oakland is just that — a white girl rapper from East Oakland.
I don’t know California well but I understand she grew up in Albany before she and her mom moved to Oakland. Folks have questions about how she narrates her path but for me this is less about her authenticity but what happens to Black women in the process. Other thoughts on where she’s from http://dopegirlfresh.tumblr.com/post/6083753949/why-the-fuck-didnt-any-of-yall-tell-me-about-this-hot
I havent been with the girl year-to-year, locale-to-locale,story but i can tell you that the way you move and who you rotate with in oakland speaks a little bit to how ‘authentic’ an individual like Kreayshawn may or may not be. Sometimes, a white girl rapper from East Oakland is just that — a white girl rapper from East Oakland…
I just saw a part of her video the other day and I couldn’t help but think of this artist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tairrie_B
Haven’t we seen this before? I’m all for anti-essentialism, but her performance is straight up caricature, not genre-spanning or a respectful hommage. It figures that she is being co-signed by Odd Future.
I’m sorry but when black folks, particularly young black women turn their heads and close their eyes to Lady Gaga, Ke$sha, Fergie, and other white female artists that have done the same things to different degrees than this limitedly talented child, we should not be surprised that this Kreyshawn has appeared on the scene. Black women help support these kind of artists and then want to scream and holler when the worst kind of white woman parody of black womanhood gets placed front and center.
We need to stop handing out “that white girl cool” passes and start supporting our own. This chick gets a 1 million dollar deal? Really? And Jean Grey is still struggling? And what really kills me, if a black girl had churned out some mess like this we would be hollering about how simple-minded and embarrassing this so-called “music” is, but how many sisters will be watching white girl stripper Amber Rose’s reality show when it drops? Answer…plenty of them…..
And we really need to stop being surprised that black men are front and center behind white female artists of this weak nature. Black men have repeatedly sold out black women when it comes to the almighty hip hop dollar….always. This mess reminded me EXACTLY of the Paris Hilton video, Rapture…exactly. A white girl with no talent with some brother dancing and cooning in the background. Her other video “Bumpin, Bumpin” reminded me of that poor little child in that “it’s Friday, Friday” video. I mean come on…can’t dance, can’t sing, can’t flow….
And I believe with great confidence that as freely as this chick is throwing around “bitch” and “hoe”, she’s’ saying “nigga” too with plenty of brothers looking dead in her face when she’s saying it. And that pisses me off more than the appropriation…it’s the sense of entitlement. Researching this chick and finding out that she is VERY free with leveling critiques at women of color pisses me off more that the appropriation…not only does she get to mimic, she gets to tell us we’re not black enough…SHM!!!!
Yeah, though she says she doesn’t use the n-word in the complex mag article, she does in a couple of videos that she’s shot. I too am curious about how black women relate to her and even more so in real life. I linked a video of hers called online fantasy that features her and a black woman making out rather awkwardly. I’ve seen the same woman in pictures. I”d love to know her story.
yo honestly this is like getting mad at a magpie for stealing your change purse. kreayshawn isn’t borrowing your shine directly, she found it because she associates with the hottest acts in youth hip-hop right now. yeah she’s a white girl, but white people are no more innately born with a sense of cultural orthopraxy than any other color people, and vice versa. i am for treating people with respect, but in our younger generation, nobody’s culture is like, inviolable. she identifies with her artistic peers- the odd future/soulja boy/lil b nucleus, sees them getting attention and money by making irreverent, exploratory, sometimes dumbass, ultimately youthful art, does the same, and succeeds. why u mad? she understood that by mimicking her peers’ flamboyance she could work the system? for her as an individual, that’s adaptive behavior.
Her individual behavior has consequences beyond her and speaks to the ways in which structural oppression makes certain paths viable for some at the expense of others.
not everyone is privileged enough to have time to read a multitude of cultural perspectives in the process of selecting a course of action. i mean, i know white people are supposed to wear topcoats while we peruse leather-bound tomes in our parlors and stroll through our gardens chatting with our governesses, scheming on ways to oppress people with darker skin but in reality most of us see the world we live in, and try to figure out a way to make it work for us. you might find kreayshawn distasteful and that’s certainly your right, but she’s not personally plotting a vast conspiracy, she’s just hustling on behalf of a trend. why don’t you write about the labels who sign and promote the acts you find distasteful instead of hating on a young girl behaving badly? or even better, you could write instructions for young folks on what you would like to see in music! or go teach music in schools! or you could hitch your wagon to a trend for page views.
I’m always curious why the assumption is that I and others who raise questions aren’t involved in projects that create the world we want to see. This is a blog post.
i’m assuming that because you spent time writing a blog post raising questions about hip-hop internet tabloid fodder. it’s a dead end.
this is an aside, but i’ve read around on this site a little bit (i dont agree with everything being said, but it’s said intelligently and passionately), and i have a question about writing style- why do the writers/commenters sometimes use a passive voice in making contentious points- saying “why the assumption is” rather than “why readers assume”?
from my point of view, i think the second is a stronger phrasing, because it implies that people make assumptions and they can be held responsible for them, instead of basically saying “assumptions exist”, implying that assumptions are an environmental factor, and may or may not be dynamic.
what i take it you are saying that i (and others) am making inaccurate assumptions about you, but i’m not an malevolent assumption-making environmental phantasm summoning boulders to hinder your path and dense fogs to obscure your accomplishments, i’m a dude typing stuff, and the only way i know you is from the words you’ve written here.
IMO using the active voice consistently would help the readers who agree with your points to bolster their sense of self-efficacy, and would better engage the readers and commenters who don’t agree but still are interested in what you have to say.
Thanks for the grammar lesson, def bingo.
i hope it’s more helpful than an echo chamber
Thank you CFC for opening this discussion! I feel there are many layers to this discussion. I do agree that her image is problematic but what popular culture image isn’t. The biggest problem here is that she is white. People wouldn’t be wasting their time talking about her if she wasn’t white. AT THE SAME TIME, thats a structural issue within our society that will automatically assume her image is that of a black female in America. Quite frankly, getting rid of her or critiquing her in a academic setting won’t change that. What we really need to do is get this type of discussion going with our youth (particularly our young girls, not just black) and see what they think about those representing them in the media. Sad to say that this article will probably never reach that demographic and we’ll be stuck making pointless comments.
Honestly, as a 22 year old ‘self-identified’ (because I know some black folk that don’t) Black woman, I could care less about her image. I don’t relate to her nor will I ever.
As a lover and student of hip-hop music and culture, I say its so much bigger that what we see in the media. Just because you get a million dollar deal or everyone knows your name (or writing articles about you) does not make you successful. Especially in 2011 when artists put out 10 online mixtapes before they even think about making an album. To my 90’s hip-hop heads—the game ain’t like it used to be. Artists like MC Lyte, Queen, etc are not going to get thrown right at you in the mainstream. If you really love the music and culture, you’ll go find what you are looking for. As far as I am concerned artists like Jean Grae, Invincible, Stacy Epps, Boog Brown, Rapsody, Georgia Anne Muldrow, Eagle Nebula, Eternia and the list goes on for days are not struggling. People are just struggling to hear them but believe that people are listening. For me its not about how many youtube plays you get, its about how many lives you positively change.
Indeed different ways of understanding success are important. I think the question remains how does the definition of success you’ve laid out here become more widely applied?
great question that I (we) do not have the answer to, right now. unfortunately its relative and socially constructed. i say #startwiththeyouth.
thank you for the engaging question!
I do think its interesting that few of the comments address her misogyny. A point I was trying to make was that the equation swag= a type of black masculinity = cool= misogynistic ways of talking about women is not a good one. For anybody, for Kreayshawn, for odd future, or Syd Tha Kid. The most popular comment on the Syd video where she jokes about slapping bitches is “SWAG”. I have a problem with this equation and the fact that anybody can adopt it with little regard for its impact on women.
I find that interesting as well. Her use of black women as invisible sexual props was hardly commented on. WHY? I didn’t even know about that aspect of her shtick until this article. Everything else that I’ve read on it (Cause I’m not about to watch it) didn’t make a peep about that. On that note she reminds me of Nicki Minaj.
However I don’t agree w/ your assertion that misogyny negates queerness. “her queer black masculinity doesn’t seem all that queer when she speaks of women in the same derogatory fashion as her band mates”. I don’t think you can extrapolate your own political views of what ‘queerness’ is on to someone else and invalidate them based on that.
Thanks for your comment. I didn’t say that misogyny negates queerness. I was speaking to the homonormativity that results when masculine of center folks invoke misogyny in ways that mirror cis men’s behavior.
I believe that as we (well, at least me) address her appearance and her doing rap music, we are also addressing her misogynistic ways. Why is it all wrapped in one? Well, look at rap music.
Kreyshawn is doing rap, and all of its misconceptions (i.e. the misogyny, weed head raps, pushing drugs, etc), in such a foul way that it’s unbelievable to digest in its entirety. Since you brought it up though, I feel there’s no need to separate her misogyny from the Black male rap misogyny because she’s trying to imitate it. Lesbian, bi or straight, misogyny is misogyny in my opinion.
HI HATER
*Waves* Hey girl, hey!
CF I fucks with you so hard right now!!!!! You always inspire me to keep it classy.
Really, Kreayshawn? It’s unfortunate that you think sisters are hatin on you (since the style you think you are imitating clearly came from some Black girls around your way). This is an opportunity for critical dialogue, but it seems that keepin it 100 is not your style.
You cant be serious right now. You hood, right? You street, right? You “slap bitches and hoes”, right? Then why you care if we are supposedly HATING. I think why you are willing to dismiss the plethora of voices critiquing systems that you so comfortably, effortlessly fit into by calling them HATERS is because you know that something aint right with your success and they are calling you out too close to comfort.
For me, this is not about HATING individuals, even self-righteous white female rappers with questionable talent, but systems which let them use black vernacular without any sort of accountability or responsibility for their behavior.
So, in words of Crunktastic, please come again, and this time come correct.
this article is great, and I believe kreayshawns entitlement comes from the fact that she wants to be from the hood so bad and she grew up around this culture, she is the perfect example of assimilation. The only reason we shoul be mad about her contract is nit because better females don’t have one but because of the entitlement she gives to these suburban kids, they see her say nigga theyre like damn if she could say it I could say it. I don’t know why ppl expect so much from her, she had been dawned the female lil b, she’s an entertainer not an artist, and her and the entire music industry are using black culture. I know of her, she’s from San Francisco, and on Oakland she lived in the 20 s not the hood, but you know how white people ate willing to call anywhere hood. oh and she Mia def does use nigga, she’s a liar, & ive seen her test the waters with that word on twitter after she blew up but ppl were not having it.
i just watched CORRINA CORRINA with whoopi in it. it was superb. it goes into some of these issues. great american film.
crunk feminist collective i am so glad you exist.
I don’t really get all the hate, yea she’s stupid and inappropriate, but so is 90% of popular music. She’s young and got lucky with a catchy youtube hit, she’s probably a one hit wonder, let her have her 15 minutes. There’s no reason to take it so seriously.
“There’s no reason to take it so seriously.”
If everybody felt this way, nothing would ever change. And because so many people feel this way, things seldom do change.
so, so true @distance88
OH WOW THAT THOUGHT IS SO TOTALLY ORIGINAL.
http://www.racialicious.com/2009/12/21/and-we-shall-call-this-moffs-law/
To add something new, can I mention the whole setup of the video adds another layer of wrong to me. The setting looking like some Beverly HIlls/Rodeo Drive stuff reeks of Pretty Woman, you know, that movie where a white prostitute tries to rise above her class and go shopping with the rich white girls… so what are you saying about the ‘ghetto’ Oakland women “where you come from ” who want to wear the Gucci Gucci, Kreayshawn? Plus, the side shots of her and her partner on some suburban street totally made it look like a white kid playing house as a rapper, like, look at me dressing up like a black woman from LA! But at the same time telling black women I’m better than them because I have the privilege of not buying name brands to try to raise my status! Uuuugh.
“But at the same time telling black women I’m better than them because I have the privilege of not buying name brands to try to raise my status! Uuuugh.”
YUP!
“There’s just certain things I’m simply not having.” –MC Lyte
Add Kreayshawn to the list.
wow, you would have thought one of you guys created hip hop based on the way you’re talking about her. i dont lister to her music, but her song is very cute and catchy. some of yall sound butt hurt. she’s a 21 year old from east oakland. If i grew up in latin america i might have been in a Mariachi Band. yall sound hella salty. She is not black and she does not represent black women. get over it
im more bothered by the minstrel shows on VH1. That basketball wives show and the real housewives are shows with black women. Thats the stuff that bothers me.
That bothers me too @ansel troy. just because Im expressing a problem with what Kreayshawn represents does not mean I dont take issue with the crap on VH1.
not to come at you sideways, ansel, but you and miguel should have a dialogue after you’ve read jayna brown’s book, babylon girls: black women performers and the shaping of the modern. i suggest you read chapter two, which you give you a historical glimpse into the word “minstrel” which in turn will posslbly broaden your comprehension of the dynamics involved with kreayshawn’s artistry or lack of and her performance of performing female “black face;” her idea of a black woman.
you see, as it’s already been mentioned, kreayshawn “performs” with a sense of entitlement of what she views as hip-hip culture, black culture, oakland culture, the culture of cool, black female culture …and on and on. historically….in the 1800s…when a man wanted to make money, he’d put on a “colored show.” stretching the historical aspect way, way forward to now, when someone wants to make money, that business puts on a “colored show”…meaning a cultural or group of peoples likeness is appropriated to the extent that only the by product becomes useful as it can be sold. however, the burden or the essence of this group of people is left behind. way, way behind. enter kreayshawn.
and if you still don’t understand the dynamics of what CFC and their readers are discussing, think of hip-hop. it’s a global culture that selling everything. at it’s frameworks, beneath the wood boards we walk upon, are its founders: people of color.
Work it out, Moya! Loved reading this as I’ve been thinking about or, apparently hatin’ on, Kreayshawn and others for a minute. You have given me more to think about and I appreciate your smart words and swift flow. Thank you, CFC for having Black girls’ backs! TLA
I have to take issue with the comment, “Sometimes a white girl rapper raised in East Oakland is just that — a white girl rapper raised in East Oakland”. Kreayshawn does not exist within a vacuum. She has to be viewed within the context of the larger society – a society still greatly informed by racism, concious and unconcious. And what she symbolizes is a 21st century example of white appropriation and white entitlement. Value is given to her, economic and social, because she is “a white girl rapper” . To ignore this, is to ignore the foundation of her 15 minutes of fame.
Is it that you believe this girl is rapping/styled in a way she “believes is black” or you are upset that you see a non-black girl with black men and feel it’s some sort of betrayal to you?! I mean, you take this beat and put M.I.A. on it , it’s no problem to you. Look, the girl is a collection of styles with her minnie mouse mess on her head, her heavy “la vita loca” eyeliner, tats and her earring to nose-ring deal. She has taken from a lot of styles and I see a girl with her type of image as a way to grab the attention of people that she wants as a specific audience. You should actually question yourself that the words “bitches” and “hoes” immediately direct you to the thought of “black people” as well as “bamboo earrings” Isn’t the problem that those simplistic terms bring to mind a race in it’s shallowest form? Is that this girl’s fault?
Did you know a lot of the people in the “party” part of the video are from her scene , including white dude with sunglasses looking dude from Hangover, and they have worked a long time to get any attention? I mean think of all the years they put into their music/videos/art with no guarantee of success because of their OWN skin color! You want to call it a “slap in the face of black people” , but I think you meant “the cold water of reality” that this white girl took a spooky GraveDiggaz type beat and made it a fun song while a lot of so called “real artist” can’t get a play with Pharrell or kanye or whomever producing them.
Kid sister, who is black, has a similar style of music/look and yet I never thought of her as “being black” as opposed to being individualistic going against the grain of the “sexpot” image that the Lil Kim’s /Foxy Brown’s of the world made acceptable. So what is Kid Sister doing so right that this girl is doing so wrong? For you , it’s her race and really YOU have the issue with race and need to subside these feelings because they are not pretty to read about or , I imagine, to be around.
Maybe the problem is “there is no country for Old-minded bloggers” Yesterday is over and while you lament the days of black people and their proud symbols of female artist like “the baddest bitch ” Trina and “How I make a Sprite can disappear in my mouth.” Lil Kim , we in the comfort of today will nod our head to this beat and smirk about her “I got swag it’s coming out my ovaries” line as we get the joke.
There a couple of quotes in your comment that I’m unclear if you are trying to attribute to me. You shouldn’t use quotes unless you are quoting actual text from what I’ve written. I didn’t say anything about betrayal, “lament[ing] the days…,” nor did I say Kreayshawn is at fault for black slang.
It’s clear that Kreayshawn doesn’t think she’s black. She’s always talking about being a white girl and reps her white girl mob. She is however using blackness to get put on and I suppose part of what people seem to be arguing is whether that’s conscious or not, that because she grew up in Oakland she just absorbed the local flavor and is just being herself.
I am interested in the absence of black women and their simultaneous hypervisibility through Kreayshawn’s styling, black girl early 90’s revival. Why are there no black women in the video? Check that party scene again, please. Why are black men an integral part of the crew but black women are on the periphery? Why White Girl Mob as opposed to girl mob which could have been inclusive of women of color, not just black women? Oakland is more than white girls and black men. So is LA. Please don’t mistake these questions as a plea for inclusion. I’m saying her whiteness has a lot to do with why people are interested.
Moya, your commentary is so smart & on point.
When I first read it yesterday, it blew my mind a bit. Call me out of touch, but I had no idea that Kreayshawn was blowing up online.
I live in Oakland & saw her perform once at a queer party (that was racially mixed). In that context, her music was fun and didn’t carry as much connotation around race. It reminded me of Hot Tub, who describe their genre as “crunk/funk/punk”, so it seemed authentic to other stuff going on musically/performance wise around town (http://www.myspace.com/hottub94608). It seemed playful, almost a spoof, like she was not taking herself seriously and was messing with expectations. Her hairstyle & clothes came off as queer, not specifically “Black” (Oakland street style is def a mashup of the two).
I hadn’t seen the video before you posted it here. Yep, the song & style & messaging really comes across differently when she’s walking around International Blvd with all the black dudes backing her up, outside the context of queer space. It’s disappointing to see what I read as playful disruption of expectations turn into posturing.
oh, correction – on closer look, the street scenes in that vid are LA, not Oakland.
well said. <3
well said! <3 love this reply.
thanks for your comment Tasty. What a difference context makes. I’m even more interested in her connection to odd future then as their known for having some queer hating lyrics. Do women get a pass?
“Why are there no black women in the video… Why are black men an integral part of the crew but black women are on the periphery?”
Maybe her crew is a group of close friends, of whom there just happen to be no black girls? Maybe the extras in the party scene are people who are vaguely connected to her through acquaintances and there just aren’t that many black girls in that larger social circle?
To me the lack of black women in the video seems less to do with willful racism via the hoodrat stereotype and more a product of circumstance of the people she runs with. We’ll never know unless we ask her though.
Full disclosure: I thought the beat was sick but her flow is abysmal.
Sorry, moyazb, but it seems like you’re projecting your own sense of entitlement. Why would she have to feature black women in her video? If you peruse some of her films on youtube, a number of them feature some very pretty black girls. I suppose the obligatory black girl would have assuaged you to produce less of a huff-piece. I mean what in the world makes you think “hoe” is code for black women? Or that her style has has anything to do with black women? Get over yourself.
No sir. Get over yourself. Do you live in the real world? Turn on any radio and you will see that the worst parts of commercial hip hop culture routinely equate the terms bitch and ho with black women. Second this notion that adding a Black girl to a problematic video would make it better, is like suggesting that a racist white person go get a Black friend! Come on now. You are smarter than that. I hope. The notion that Black women have a sense of entitlement is unclear. But if you mean that we feel entitled to be represented humanely, to not be a caricatured in pop culture any more than we already are, to not be the source material for some white girl’s ghetto fantasy–then let’s call that a set of reasonable expectations, rather than a false or illegitimate “sense of entitlement.”
See, the hyper-paranoia displayed here is exactly how Don Imus could scapegoat Hip-Hop, and a big reason why a bunch of wild ass SPELMAN girls could shout down Common on Oprah. I mean Common is a guy who did GAP commercials with his baby girl for god’s sake. If you think “hoe” is tantamount to black women, clearly you’re delusional.
Nuance is not your strong suit, I see. But bad, faulty argumentation via gross and deliberate misdirection and mischaracterization is right up your alley. Normally, folks resort to these tactics when they no longer have a point. And you don’t. So instead, you’d rather just say a bunch of angry shit to try and provoke us. That’s unfortunate.
But we don’t have to attend every fight we’re invited to…. Peace.
Peace.
Well that goes to show you weren’t paying attention in the first place. Moyazb wrote::
“I am interested in the absence of black women and their simultaneous hypervisibility through Kreayshawn’s styling, black girl early 90′s revival. Why are there no black women in the video?”
This wasn’t my own suggestion but one you seem peeved about. And not surprisingly you ignored my mentioning the fact that black girls appear in a number of Kreayshawn’s short films on youtube. The sense of entitlement I was referring to is this idea that she should have to include black women in this particular video to conform and make it more palpable for black women, an argument you all but dismissed. Not to mention the bald faced sense of entitlement as it pertains to black men. Apparently this girl has both a “girl gang” and a “white girl mob,” but here you are projecting your insecurities on this novice female rapper, as if this constitutes an erasure of black womanhood. More puzzling is your apparent demand for both more representation and no representation. You really expect this young girl to care? Its pointless arguing with people who think that to utter “bitch” or “hoe” is to denigrate black women, knowing they’ll ignore it disparages all women. Hell, I hear more black girls use these terms than anybody else. Ah, but its always woe is me, never this has nothing to do with me.
“It is indeed pointless to argue with people” who think about race in what seems to be a color-blind/post-racial manner. In that frame, Black folks claims about racism are always illegitimate, “woe is me” claims. The fact that you think these claims are about “conformity,” “palpability” or “insecurity” confirm that dialoguing with you is an exercise in futility. At that point, it’s just better to stop.
Done.
Basically the author shoots from the hip without any regard for the facts, just lame pop-psychology masquerading as critical analysis. I mean peep how black girl-centric this early Kreayshawn video is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY_Xc-YSxuI
Not only is black girl-centric, home girl is making out wit’em! lmao
So let me be clear:
You are saying that
a.) Because she has a Black “friend,” she isn’t racist or racially problematic.
b.) because she wants to fuck a black girl, she isn’t racist or racially problematic.
c.) because a black girl is the OBJECT of her white female gaze/desire/fantasy, this video is can be termed “Black girl centric.”
Is this correct?
In the article itself I make mention of where and how Kreayshawn uses black women in her videos. I also reference this video. Thank you for pulling it out as Crunktastic so elloquently addressed my concerns.
For the lack of any serious point of contention, you level charges of racism and seek to impose your obscure moral philosophy on a white female artist. She has other videos featuring black women, and yes everyone is “silent.” The art does the talking. What, should they break out into some diatribe about the plight of black women to assuage you? What’s problematic is all this talk about “appropriating” the “utility” of black women. As if culture and even black men and yours to keep, as if only you can represent either. It’s clear to me that you take issue not only with Kreayshawn being white, but her being comfortable in her own skin. Period. That is unacceptable to you because art or not, apparently white women are only supposed to exist in a state of apologetic servitude. Anything less is this grave affront to black womanhood. The sheer petulance involved is staggering. Again: GET OVER YOURSELVES.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRGauEO75Pk
Oh god, this video is so problematic. if though she showcases her best friend, who is a black female, she won’t let the black woman speak for herself! Its racist! Look how she *appropriates* us! Let’s boycott Kreyshawn for uh, er, not featuring black women in one video, and decrying every other video which does. Yeah! Lets start a petition. That will show her not to underestimate the *utility* of black ladyhood! lmao!
Here’s your one warning: Read the section “on commenting.” We reserve the right not to post any comments in which you are being a jerk for no reason. You can feel free to disagree, vehemently, and you have several times, but watch yourself. Our comments section is not a safe haven for trolls. They don’t call us CRUNK for nothing.
Somebody has to show you ridiculous you sound.
Jack Stoker, why don’t you go somewhere? It’s getting, just, embarrassing to watch you lose it more and more as these black women refuse to bow down to your male-privilege fostered ridiculousness. i don’t think you realize how much of a pure d fool you resemble right now. why is it so important that they be shown “how ridiculous they sound,” which they don’t, you’re just projecting. save it for someone who cares and go on back to your life, which i’m sure is sooooo exciting as you find nothing better to do with it than wrangle with women whose intellect is vastly superior to yours (which is what’s really bugging you, methinks. RAWR RAWR I AM JACK STOKER I AM MAN AND YOU WIMMIN WILL LISTEN WHEN I SPEAK AND BELIEVE EVERYHING I SAY CAUSE I AM MAN RAWR RAWR yeah whatever dude.)
While I think this article is really well written and brings up good points, I have to say I still like the song. I also like other female rappers like Miss B, Khia, Li’l Kim, and Lady. I don’t view it as a “race thing,” simply because I actually like this style of music – in other words, I’d like her if she were black or white. I think she’s good, but not as good as Lady. Anyway,I can see how this rings true to a lot of people.
there is so much cultural appropriation going on in this video and her work i think i may explode
I rebuked a friend after she tweeted me Kreayshawn’s “Gucci Gucci.” I thought it was some sort of Lonely Island (Andy Samberg’s crew) sketch. I stared at my laptop with 1 part Vondie Curtis Hall “I Cannot Believe It” Coming to America face and 2/3 2 Girls-1 Cup reaction video face. It was vile and so dumb. I’m so glad you provided this close listening/reading and critical context and so sad that Columbia Records just signed this simple chick to a record deal.
Thanks to all of the beautiful, intelligent women who have commented and understand the insult this is to ART. i take music seriously and i won’t apologize for that or stand for being called a hater cause IM WOKE. my sisters in oakland and berkeley do what she does EVERY.DAMN.DAY. with no reward, no contracts, no acknowledgment. no, we ain’t mad cause girlfriend white. it’s unfortunate that it’s become about her like that. this is about the industry and the structure that rejects BLACK WOMEN as we are but find something noteworthy in a woman who does not look like us but mimics the very behavior we are taught to rise above.
this hurts me because i thought things were getting better.
i don’t know why. but i did.
*shrugs*
she’s just another waka flocka or whatever to me now.
enjoy your money, though, girl.
Thanks for this Kimi!
“this is about the industry and the structure that rejects BLACK WOMEN as we are but find something noteworthy in a woman who does not look like us but mimics the very behavior we are taught to rise above.”
THIISSS^^^^^^. I’m done.
This article and alot of the comments left to it make perfectly valid points. I would like to say though that being as i’ve met a good amount of young kids in the bay that are pretty similar to her i’m going to assume that her persona is fairly real to who she is. With that said im not mad at this girl. I’m not going to hold her to different standards than young musicians of any color. Gucci Man and Wayne can have mad ignorent raps that disrespect black women and go to jail and i’m ok with that. Lil B can say i got 100,000 bitches on my dick and i’m ok with that. This girls wants to make super ignorent raps and im supposed to not be, because she’s white? Isnt’ that kinda like saying “white people can’t be super ignorent, because thats reserved for black and brown people?”
That said if the music that Kreayshawn and her contemporaries (i.e. Soulja Boy, Lil B, Odd fellows, etc) make offends you, than cool, i see how it could. If somehow white girl Kreayshawn doing it is more offensive than the others, i don’t exactly see eye to eye with you. Much love, I appreciate the dialogue and the chance to voice my opinion.
Nico,
Thanks for commenting. Kreayshawn is not more offensive nor am I trying to reserve super ignorance for black people. I’m not ok with Lil’ B saying it either. I’m not questioning her authenticity as it doesn’t matter how authentic she is if she’s still denigrating black women in the process. I’m pointing out that her whiteness is a major reason folks are interested in her. Please take a look around our blog as challenging misogyny in all forms is what we are about.
Kreayshawn’s sister, V-Nasty, is also a rapper and has several videos on Youtube. This is one of her most recent ones, where she uses “n-word” frequently: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtX36UcRr84
I think you should have done your post on the sister because she is far worse. Nevertheless, well-written article and I agree with the points your brought up.
I find it odd that you mention two queer people in this piece and both times it is in the context of questioning or interrogating their queerness.
For her, calling women bitches and hoes is funny, a category she is somehow exempt from via her whiteness and sometimes queerness. She’s got swag because she fucks bitches too, though she’s quick to point out she’s “not a raging lesbian.”
Wow, how offensive of her, implying there is something wrong with being a “raging” lesbian. I can’t imagine why a queer person might feel the need to downplay their queerness to be more palatable to the mainstream. But lucky she did, because it gave you the opportunity to throw in a line about her “sometimes queerness” as if people stopped being queer when they had heterosexual sex.
Syd Tha Kid, DJ and beat maker for Odd Future is currently following this path and her queer black masculinity doesn’t seem all that queer when she speaks of women in the same derogatory fashion as her band mates.
What does the phrase “doesn’t seem all that queer” mean exactly? Is there some standard you’ve set about who is really queer and who isn’t, based on how deserving you think they are of the label? Or do you just feel entitled to police other people’s sexuality if they’ve done things you find offensive?
“sometimes queerness” is a paraphrasing of her own way of referring to herself as an “occasional lesbian.”
I’ll quote myself from the comments section where I already addressed my thoughts on syd tha kid. “I was speaking to the homonormativity that results when masculine of center folks invoke misogyny in ways that mirror cis men’s behavior.”
I don’t understand how either is policing.
I agree 100% with this article. It’s sums up exactly what I think in a much more eloquent way. Thank you for that.
Oh, just wanna say that the Indian medallion is actually the Chicago Blackhawks’ team logo. I know you hipsters love Native American shit, Kreayshawn, but leave my hockey team out of it. Side eyeing so hard right now.
i believe that you, and many people, are missing the point of this type of art. these people do not really mean or represent any of the things they say but are more so using their music and persona as a way to point out how ridiculous the hip-hop culture and, even perhaps in a larger sense, society has become. lil b and tyler, the creator (of odd future) openly admit to being paradoxical and facetious – kreayshawn was mentored by lil b and has this same mentality. you all are being way too politically correct about it and it’s getting in the way of the realization that this movement is satiric in nature and does have a harsh yet oddly effective way of criticizing a horribly damaging and offensive culture and re appropriating it, in the same way that people use “slutwalks” to combat rape culture, victim-blaming and slut-shaming.many of the greatest thinkers have used satire and cynicism in order to inspire change in others and perhaps if we realized that we’d be able to get over things instead of constantly making a fight to stop them and actually continuing the type of behaviors we hope to discourage/discontinue.
af- I encourage you to re-read the piece as I addressed the supposed satire of Lil’ B and Kreayshawn. I didn’t say anything about “fighting to stop” Kreayshawn and company. What I was noting is that her whiteness matters in her getting a record deal and in people paying attention to her. It matters that black women are, as you believe, the “satirical” subject of her rhymes but are conspicuously absent in videos and her crew; it’s called the White Girl Mob. Also, please read this article regarding hipster racism http://meloukhia.net/2009/07/hipster_racism.html
Re: slutwalk, please check out another post on our blog regarding it’s efficacy for all women http://www.crunkfeministcollective.com/2011/05/23/slutwalks-v-ho-strolls/
One big room. Full of bad womenz.
The Indian medallion she’s wearing is the image that appears on the jersey of Chicago’s hockey team, the Blackhawks.
Which probably makes it more problem, not less………
I’m glad someone else was able to articulate what I was saying in my tumblr post I agree with your core concern. I do think thejust integrate the icon without knowing the Why of it. And I do think it’s an important concern.
seriously? people can identify and/or express as whatever gender, race, culture they want because that’s self-expression. By boxing people in and telling them no you cannot do this because it is reserved for a gender/ethnicity, that’s racism and oppression. your just looking at it the wrong way and getting offended because others aren’t afraid to express themselves as what they aren’t labeled as by others. i am a lesbian and i have no problem with her having hoes or bitches. a man does it and he’s a labeled a player and she’s labeled misogynistic? i think people are too oriented on judging people’s skin color and making assumptions on their motives.
What I personally find more offensive is their glaring lack of talent. I mean, “Gucci, Gucci, Gucci, Fendi, Fendi, Fendi, Prada, Prada, Prada” and “I got swag pumping out my ovaries”, do they actually listen to this stuff and go “Oh yeah, this is GREAT music”. Who the hell could POSSIBLY enjoy this crap? I respect everyone’s right to their own music tastes, but really, this junk could only appeal to the lowest common denominator. It’s the “Jersey Shore” of music.
What i find more offensive is your glaring lack of talent! She writes her own music and edits and directs videos. If you listened to the song you’d know this and also you wouldn’t have qouted the chorus wrong.
Judgmental much? If for some reason you don’t like what she stands for or the way she’s going about what she’s doing offends you on a racial or sexual level i can at least see why you might make a comment on the internet about someones music. I could probably find thousands of songs on You Tube that i don’t like or i think are stupid or void of a point, but am i wasting my time commenting on how their stupid or untalented…. No. Its not about other people’s lack of talent. It’s about showing the world your talent.
watching the comments here unfold over the past week, I am realizing that a lot of the commenters here are masking their ‘fuddy duddiness’, i.e. “the music was better when I was young and i dont understand this stuff, so it must be shitty’ with supposed objective cultural critique. You ladies and gentlemen sound like Stanley Crouch.
Secondarily, one of the main points being missed here is that the internet has significantly democratized the music making and marketing process. Regardless of how we subjectively receive her art and what we think of her cultural significance — she made a song, shot a video, it got hot, she garnered attention. that she happens to be white is inconsequential in the initiating of the process [i do grant that it likely provides her a certain amount of leverage in negotiating whatever deal that may or may not come]. Its that plain.
I shared your post on my blog as well here: http://www.domrockstar.com
i have so many thoughts on kreayshawn, the most prominent being she’s all over the fuckin’ place. 4 or 5 years ago she was on downelink (gay myspace) trying to model & network with other queers; then she was trying to be an urban film maker (i saw her around a few places and just thought she was some beezy with a camera) but now she’s doing what all bay area 20somethings with musician friends wanna do; make party music. whether people outside of the bay area get it or understand it and as sloppy as it may be shes paying homage to all the music we came up listening to: plain and simple gradeschool rhymes over dancable beats. i mean seriously digital underground’s “humpty dance” was no work of poetic genius and the man wore a fake jewish nose but did anyone say shit? nooooooope
so as much as i agree with the general sentiment of this article i dont at all think she has ever intentionally appropriated black culture. real talk if you were to go deep into the aves or run in certain social circles in the bay area you could easily find a 100 kreayshawn’s in all colors sizes orientations and political mindsets chiefing blunts, sipping heem and popping off at the mouth about money b*tches and what hood they rep. for instance i learned about shoe game and hair braiding from a korean girl who swore by carmex and would not leave the house with out a glob of murrays in her hair. now did i ever think she was she “trying to be black” no, she was just a chick from deep e.o. who might beat me up if i ever questioned her credibility. what many people seem to be overlooking is that out here in the bay because of all our cultural diversity stereotypical black aesthetics aren’t as race based as they would even be 200 miles north or south of us; they’re more so a socio-economic thing or the product of who you kick it with/get your trees from/went to HS with or date and they’re certainly NOT at all a reflection of who you’re trying to culturally appropriate or imitate.
admittedly so kreayshawn is an exactitude: a walking talking embodiment of the mac dre lyric “see, in the bay area we dance a little different” and it’s sad to me that people are so busy pulling race/class cards that theyve missed the opportunities most of which shes kreayted (after-all her name is wordplay on “creation”) to properly receive that shes just a girl from oakland who wants to get fucked up, sleep with someone cute and wild out with her homies not all of whom are white or men in fact common sense would tell someone that what we see in the video is most likely not a representation of her hometown friends or who she was socialized with. do you think all the folks in nicki or beyonces videos actually know them? lets use some intellect here folks: kreay’s new to LA so of course the vids gonna be packed with randos and people she can get to show up to party and not her actual homies and while her video doesnt feature many girls (of color or not) i can for sure co-sign that she does indeed have friends that are not only female but also as oddly dressed and of color (black brown red & yellow if you must ask)
now here’s where it gets dicey:
do these girls have street cred? depends on the chick
are these girls are a good look for women? no!
are they positive representations of the bay? no!
do they think they’re black? um…there are deluded becky’s but most of them know their role as white girls (kreayshawn has given up saying the n-word and publicly expressed displeasure with v-nasty’s usage of it )
do white one’s have it easier? in some cases yes in some no but when has the media ever NOT played by “white is right” rules
so from the hills of montclair all the way out to 100-what -the-hell-ever ave. these girls are everywhere in the town. they’re part of oaklands scenery the same way white people in northface fleeces and hybrid vechicles are now fixtures of berkeley
kreayshawn’s not trying to be black she’s trying to be bay… and doing a damn good job.
This comment seems to pivot on a few wrong assumptions, namely:
a.) that California is some utopia of diversity when it comes to race. I beg to differ, and as one small example, watch this hella racist campaign ad bought us courtesy of the California Right: http://gawker.com/5811978/give-us-your-cash-bitch-the-years-most-racist-campaign-ad
b.) that because Kre…wants to make party music that she and other Bay area folks grew up listening to she is not appropriating Black culture. One doesn’t follow from the other. You rightly point out that her name Kre-ay-shawn is a play on Creation, but that fool wants us to pronounce it Cri-Shon. Tell me that isn’t an attempt at a terrible hat/tip to the ethnic sounding/creatively spelled names of many a working class Black girl.
c.) as the original author of this post has asserted in the post and here — Kreayshawn’s whole performance can be traced back to any Black girl in Hip Hop circa 1987 (go watch Salt ‘n Pepa’s push it). So to totally perform it while denying what she’s doing, is the definition of appropriation. And it is incredibly sad in a hip hop culture that has forced all its talented Black female emcees underground and doesn’t even allow space for the party and bullshit type ones. But folks have the nerve to fall all over themselves when a white girl does with novelty what some Black girls do as a way of life. Come the hell on! Shock G’s nose might have been culturally inappropriate, but he didn’t make his living appropriating Jewish culture and then denying it. Critical difference. (and the argument sounds like a version of “white ppl’s racism is excusable, because black ppl say and do racist ish too.” #logicfail
d.) her whack ass justifications for her gratuitous use of the n-word (which if she has stopped, she must of stopped last week) are as offensive as your cavalier dismissal of the gravity of that act.
There’s a few different points in the original post, one is about how “folks have the nerve to fall all over themselves when a white girl does with novelty what some Black girls do as a way of life.” True. No argument there.
The appropriation question is fuzzier, though. I wouldn’t call CA a utopia, but there *is* something about the culture of a place. What Mason said about Oakland is true. It’s obvious black culture is one of the strongest influences on the street culture of Oakland, and there’s also a mix of cultural influences that include various immigrant communities, queer folks of all races, and a huge class range from the flats to the hills. If Kreashawn did grow up in east oakland (which is, at least, her story), is it appropriation to dress and talk like other girls around her (of all races) do? That’s more complicated.
What struck me is how different the race cues in Kreashawn’s presentation are in the context where she started (queer multiracial oakland) versus out of context (in the video, set in LA, not explicitly queer, two white girls backed by black men who are almost props, no women of color to be seen). That’s what I tried to express in my original comment above. Context matters, and Kreashawn does seem to be informed by a specific context.
None of that is to give the girl a pass for homophobic nor racist language. Since she’s obviously about to be even more “all over the place” with her recent contract, her context is definitely changing. I hope she pays attention to that change and gains some consciousness about the messages she conveys, both explicitly in her lyrics as well as implicitly embedded in her presentation. Not holding my breath tho.
A. The Bay Area is no racial utopia. This is evident when looking at the conditions of people living in parts of Oakland (mostly minority) vs people living down the road and across a bridge in Marin County (mostly white). Shit, Oscar Grant got shot in the back on film and his killer just got out serving only 11 months. What the bay area is though, is more diverse and generally more progressive thinking than most other parts of the country. Thats not to say that there are no raciest dickheads in California.
B. Hip Hop is not Rock and Roll and this is not the 50’s. Kreayshawn is not Elvis and is not stealling rap from black people. Besides that i feel that creatively and culturally when you create something it is no longer perticularly yours. Its the the worlds to do what it will with it. Isn’t that the beauty of Hip hop in the first place, sampling something already out there and making it your own. Flipping old ideas in new ways, as original as any of us like to think we are, is all were doing.
C. I don’t see where Kreayshawn is denying that she got alot of her steez from black culture and black girls. It’s so blatenly obvous that she did, theirs no denying it. Does she need say it in every song? Does she need to print in on her t-shirt? Or better yet does she need to dress like every other white girl to appease you?
D. Yes there is probably no good defense of her use of the N-word. She’s a young girl and probably ignorant to what her usage of the word really put out to the world. She said she no longer uses the word, hopefully it’s because she learned that its not a cool thing for a white girl to run around yelling.
A. Agreed
B. No one said the problem was white rappers. Note that there are white female emcees listed in the hip hop artist links on this site (and they’ve been there from day ONE). So given that we don’t have a bias against her because she’s white, perhaps you should consider that we have a bias against her because of how she does what she does. By contrast, someone like Invincible who you can youtube does her thug thizzle, is talented, down for the cause, doesn’t give a shout out to Black culture in every song, as you seem to suggest I’m asking for in C., and still does wonderful artistry. This critique is not generalizable to all white hip hop artists, but to Kreayshawn’s ridiculousness specifically.
C. Name one song where she has shown love to Black girls and you might have a point. But from what I understand (I don’t follow her that closely) she’s quick to throw mad shade to Black girls–and hell, has thrown us shade on this site. (Scroll the comments). And if you are working from the position of white privilege, and your artistry is based in a black cultural form, then you must always be sensitive to the concerns of ppl of color (esp when they cry foul). Given the histories of co-optation that you yourself point to in B., we have every right to some healthy skepticism, and any white person who wants to roll in the hip hop game should be attuned to that. And when they make the choice not to, or to call us hypersensitive, again they are invoking their white privilege which allows them to dismiss us and not tlisten while profiting of an art form that Blacks and Latinos created.
D. agreed
She seems to be an eclectic mix of many cultures and styles. In order to make this a race issue, you have to remove ALLLLLL context of who, where, what, why, and when. I don’t think her use of ‘black culture’ is privileged mimicry, as I don’t think she’s an outsider putting on an act for novelty. What is ‘black culture’ anyway? Using slang? Smoking blunts? Hanging out with other black people? Gold earrings? Hip-hop/rap is a pretty shitty stereotype of black culture, so maybe she’s actually doing us all a favor by expanding its association. I think she’s genuinely and organically influenced by her environment and the people around her.
Rap and hip-hop are mainstream, popular forms of music. That’s all you hear on the radio. What would be more appropriately white of her? Is she supposed to sing 90’s celine dion ballads and country songs, so as not to encroach on you’re ‘authentic’ black identity?
You say your main problems are that she wouldn’t be getting this attention if she were black and that she doesn’t include black females in her videos.
There are plenty of white girls who aren’t getting attention. Being a white girl isn’t the reason she’s getting hype. She would be getting the same reaction if she were black because what she’s doing isn’t novel (even for a white girl): it’s completely on-trend. She’s getting hype because her song is catchy, the video is high-quality, and she’s a fashionable hipster. She’s getting hype because that’s what happens when videos go viral – it’s not telling of her long-term success.
And maybe she doesn’t have any black female friends because they all shun her for being an urban white girl and wearing ‘hoodrat’ bamboo earrings (which is ridiculous: gold earring do not a hoodrat make).
The song was catchy and she seems to be a talented entertainer, but I don’t think she’s a great rapper/musician, so all this criticism should be about her music, not attacking her authenticity, motives, or skin color. Who *is* authentic anymore? It’s not possible. What if she was a suburban black woman?Would she be black enough or would she be objectifying ‘ghetto’ culture? What about Kanye and his recent white culture fetish? Is it selling out that he’s distancing himself from the rapper stereotype/average black person and taking an interest in high-culture/fashion/credenzas/ect? Or, is that expanding black culture’s influence and opening up those arenas as acceptable aims/pursuits for the average black person?
The world is too global and our cultural symbols/signs are all too diluted and intermixed for this shit.
However, I’m glad there’s dialogue/conversation about it and you’re obviously an excellent writer. I mean no disrespect in disagreeing.
It has a lot of parallels to the fine arts.
Black girls saying black things just isn’t that interesting. It’s been done. However, a little white girl saying black things mixed with a hipster look and poor articulation is interesting; especially since she is so serious about it. I think it is just another manifestation of what hip-hop is saying to all people, not just black people.
The same thing happened with the mods, and the skins. They adopted black-people’s music, their dress, and their way of talking as well. It has been going on over and over and over. And white people have had adoptions made on their inventions as well as is evident in the Mexican skinhead article you sent me. There is an appeal in something foreign that speaks to you, and is fresh, and alive. People love that.
Another thing to be said for the black male stance she has taken in her lyrics is that black men look and are generally powerful. Look at the NFL, the NBA, or even MLB. Professional sports leagues are full of big black men. Look at the lyrics of hip-hop from the very beginning. They are all misogynistic, and place big, black men as a source of power and dominance. It is only natural for that to be picked up by a little white girl who wants to be taken seriously and both be seen as and feel like a source of power.
I think that Kreayshawn is just another manifestation of people’s attraction to interesting juxtapositions, and what comes from living in an interracial society.
“Black girls saying black things just isn’t that interesting.”
Yep. Case and point.
Terrific and much needed post. Is it not also curious that Diddy was desperate to sign her? Or that Jay Electronica clearly co-signs her and her team – Lil B. etc? jussayin. It’s deep.
i think you all are over analyzing EVERY DAMN THING. real talk… nicki minaj isnt african american and never claims to be african american… did you do a article like this on her? to all the people agreeing with this article are you all condeming nicki minaj as well? the answer is HELL NO. stop crying and being stuck in your reverse racism way… and yes i am a african american saying this. nuff said.
If you do a search on this site, you’ll actually find at least three critical treatments of Nicki Minaj. And no one denies the Caribbean roots of Hip Hop (shout to Kool Herc). The connection between African, Caribbean, and Af-Am music, simply points to the fact that Black musical cultures are diverse and diasporic. Thank you for bringing that angle to the discussion, if that’s what you were attempting to do.
For the record, African Americans can be misguided on race, just like everyone else. So your blackness doesn’t in an of itself validate your opinion.
Kreayshawn: Overnight Sensation, White Girl Tourist, New Rap Paradigm?
http://blogs.sfweekly.com/shookdown/2011/06/kreayshawn_overnight_sensation.php
You’re wasting too much time trying to understand pop culture. It’s not authentic… therefore there is no natural rhythm or logic attached to it. It is engineered by the few to control the masses.
Just create art for the right reasons and keep doing it. 10,000 years from now, your shit will survive and be appreciated much more than the bullshit.
I agree mostly…I think the thing is, is that it’s sort of like how people like to watch Jersey Shore…there’s a certain “in on the joke/laughing at her” going on, like, is she really dumb? Are we really allowed to watch this? Like this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ4LQjePRT4&feature=relmfu
She just is kind of wasted-seeming, yet takes it seriously, and curses, and wears outlandish clothes. It’s kind of like watching a trainwreck, and there’s novelty involved in it due to her being trashy and fine with it, which is basically what lots of pop culture is based on these days. It’s like the Sex Pistols–it’s “outrageous” because you would not expect her to dress and act this way, just like the people on Jersey Shore can seem outrageous too.
I think this Youtube comment sums part of her appeal up well:
“This shit is retarted but I keep coming back to listen lol swag”
ViciouZTV 1 week ago 24
that screwtube clip of her “mobbin’ ” in hell-a was abysmal and not funny. i’m still boggled as to how anyone thinks this is entertainment or that artists like her are being satirical about hip-hop. it’s not the FANS that made hardcore/gangsta rap mainstream, it’s the music industry, the SAME music industry that is giving these artists shine. i’m beginning to believe more and more that they’ve infiltrated it just to destroy the culture because they knew what kind of force it was. when you got suburban white kids buying public enemy records you know there’s a problem. that sf article was very unnerving as well, to say that there’s nothing rebellious about rap is such bullshit. clearly another outsider trying to tell us what THEY think hip-hop is and goes even further to say it’s pop music. can you say “agent provocateur”? all we have to do is NOT support this crap and NOT listen to it, hell stop talking about it, and pretty soon they’ll go away, but if oddball future’s success means anything that won’t happen anytime soon.
what irritates me more is not this so-called “artist” misappropriating a stereotype (which basically will give any kathy kreme kheese a reason to spew the word “nigga” ad nauseum because she does it) but the message she’s sending. she dropped out of high school THEN was given a opportunity to go to berkeley film school by getting a scholarship offer from the dean and his wife. instead what does she do? turns it down to say, “nah, i just wanna make music and be a rapper”. are you kidding me? this is more detrimental than any ignorant shit that she says and does (and she’s a fuckin’ liar for saying that she doesn’t use the epithet, i saw that video interview and she looked to the left when she told that bold-faced lie) and to me she saying to the kids “why go to school to make something of yourself? i dropped out and look at me”. kids aren’t as naive as people think, they know more than adults these days. they see a artist making money off of a gimmick and they’ll think they can do the same stupid shit and will drop out of school to achieve that goal. they don’t want to do the hard work nor are they dedicated enough to, they’re just looking for the quickest route from point A to point B without any bumps in the road or any hassles. that’s just plain’ ol lazy and artists like natashia are the sole reason for this. if oddball future have encouraged kids to drop out of school this dumb young lady will mos def boost that population for the young girls out there looking up to her like some sort of role model. she can’t even admit to being bisexual, that should tell you how confused and fucked up she is but i digress.
Im a white female rapper…the labels have told me I sound to “black”…..I guess Kreayshawn was their dream come true.
Im disgusted by Kreayshawn and I hung my head in shame when the news broke of Sony signing her.
The world doesnt want us….they want ppl that act like us.
~Persia
http://PersiaGotNext.com
wern’t you that femcee on that reality show on whyte rappers? your name and face looks familiar.
now that i see your website i see that you are her. that “heatmaker” would be ok if i didn’t have to put up with that stupid auto-tune chorus. keep up the good work and living out your dreams.
A black girl could totally have done what Kreayshawn’s doing and would have made just the same wave, I’m sure of it. In fact, look at Santigold, she did something similar to what MIA was doing in 2007 (stealing from the Baltimore club scene and myriad underground musical movements), and she got extremely famous too. I think it’s only a matter of time until this ridiculous West Coast shock rap/dump rap/hip rap movement has a black female voice. Until then, we have Kreayshawn. What disturbs me (and I think a few others who visited this site) about this article is the undertone of racism. I would be careful about dividing anything in this day and age into “white” or “black” catagories. As a young person, I was not immediately struck by Kreayshawn’s race and find it very frustrating that other, presumably older people have made such a big deal about it here. Does racism exist? Absolutely, and I know that. But it exists very much in minority to racial tolerance, and for my generation, indifference. We have a black president, we haven’t even had a Jewish president. Please, I promise, racism isn’t as pervasive as you think. Go outside, go to the store, go to the movies, go to the country. tell everyone. most people don’t care about race anymore. Now gender, that’s a different matter.
“As a young person, I was not immediately struck by Kreayshawn’s race and find it very frustrating that other, presumably older people have made such a big deal about it here.”
@Win, how old do you think the people who write this blog are? For the record we are between the ages of 25 and mid 30s. Even if you were born in 1990 or afterward, I guarantee you that race has not shifted in revolutionary fashion between the time the oldest person who writes for us is and the time you were born. Take a history class if you don’t believe me. For the record, Barack Obama’s presidency in no way suggests that this country is either post-race or colorblind. Wishing it was that way won’t make it so. And the danger of quote-unquote post-race/color-blind politics is that a.) those who subscribe to such beliefs become increasingly unable to spot racism at work, which unfortunately means we are doomed to repeat history b.) those who subscribe to color-blind racial politics and who choose “not to see color” make a conscious and deliberate choice not to see people of color and not to grapple with the ways that race affects how they live every day and if it is a person of color who subscribes to such thinking then they are largely either 1.) self-deluded or 2.) part of the middle class which means that some of the more negative effects of racism may have been blunted in their experience c.) such folks who think this way erroneously believe that merely talking about race or what is racially problematic is “racist.” Racism is both systemic and individual discrimination based upon race. White racial privilege, a by-product of racism that is experienced by all whites, even those who may not hold individually racist attitudes, manifests itself in myriad ways including the ability to perform in a racially stereotypical fashion without having to deal with any of the daily burdens of racism.
Haters gon’ hate.
wow that was eloquent. care to elaborate?
wow, you would have thought one of you guys created hip hop based on the way you’re talking about her. i dont lister to her music, but her song is very cute and catchy. some of yall sound butt hurt
I don’t know but she really just sounds ridiculous. She has a message she wants to send obviously, but she makes it sound so unintelligent how does she get followers????
http://perezhilton.com/2011-06-23-male-pole-dancer-dazzles-on-americas-got-talent
The above clip should bring up a similar debate to the one everyone is having about Kreayshawn – objectifying or appropriating a stereotyped/minority/rejected ‘other’. Everyone loves this male pole dancer because it’s ‘novel’ and cutely queer for a man to be pole dancing, but if he was a woman (if that were even allowed on tv), she’d just be labelled ‘trashy’ or ‘skanky’.
I’ve been thinking about this post all week and it’s been hard for me to understand where you’re coming from because I, as a white girl, genuinely enjoy hip-hop. This article makes me naturally defensive because in a way it says that for ME to listen to the music or use certain slang is mimicking or mocking or marginalizing black culture…which is far from intentional and obviously a hard pill to swallow. So, I came across this video today and I think, as silly as the clip might be, that it helped me understand how you might feel about Kreayshawn. It makes me angry that female pole dancers are subject to intense stigma, but this man can ‘utilize’ the novelty and be free from assumptions or stereotypes about his character, class, or sexual promiscuity. The audience is cheering for him – no one is calling him a slut or implying things about his morals.
In this way, I can see how I am privileged to be listening to hip-hop/rap or using slang or wearing certain clothes without having to carry the stereotype or without having it imply anything deeper about my character or who I am. I can see how my enjoyment of the culture/music is paid for (or is being paid for), in a sense, by struggles that I haven’t had to deal with or face.
there’s some crazy good white rappers coming out so it’s something to get used to i think. kreayshawn”s a kid.. give her a break! she’s a cool chick. don’t worry about it.
one white rappers thats getting ready ta blow up RITTZ:
http://soundcloud.com/jasonwinterz/rittz-high-five
The most disturbing thing to me is how aimless my generation is. We are full of noise, energy, voice, and force but not doing a DAMN THING. It’s whack how spectacle has become the new political. “BE FREE, BE CRAZY, BE WILD, BE WRECKLESS…THIS IS THE WAR FRONT! LOOK CRAZY, DEMAND TO ‘EXPRESS’ YOURSELF, CRY OUT LOUD AND DEMAND TO PUSH THE BOUNDARY!” but it’s helping NOBODY. There are no voices encouraging critical thought, political organizing, community development, or encouraging any semblance of a blueprint out of the coming perils facing young people worldwide in health, education, housing, the economy, racism, crime, etc. For a group that is so loud we ain’t saying sh*t that is beneficial to ANYONE’S well being in the long term, black, white, male, female, straight, queer whatever. God please bring us voices and help us to hear them!
it’s called being a rebel without a cause or a clue. mainstream media and these so-called parents have done a good job making sure this next generation is FUCKED not to mention these will be the future leaders and parents of amerikkka.
scary thought isn’t it?
and nicki minaj gets a pass cause she is “so called” carribean right? yall should blame her for starting the mockery of female hip hop…
i don’t know what you’re talking about but me and my peoples say that artists like her, gucci man and wokka wokka started this “wack is the new dope” trend in hip-hop next to rick ross fake-ass starting another trend which is getting a pass for being a fake gangster. lil’ weasel and turdman also are to blame since they aren’t real bloods.
KREAYSHAWN DISS!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVVOLdO5Bsw
Lol… Wow… I feel this is kinda what ladies on here were fearing was going to happen!
man whoever posted this kill yaself SLOW. this was 100% garbage juice. how can you call it a diss when this bullshit sounds EXACTLY the same? only difference is the broad is latina.
What frustrates me about articles like this is that they totally ignore who Kreayshawn is. You say there are only two black girls in her video, and one’s a stylist and one’s a love interest – you must not have looked very hard. I remember videos with her hanging out with her friends -including black girls. Also -since when does “hoe” mean “black girl”? I don’t know where you get that. I’m from the bay, and hoe means HOE. Black, white, asian, mexican. A hoe is a hoe. It’s not a racial thing, ffs. As for Kreayshawn “aping black culture” – she GREW UP in Oakland. Why, oh why, is it so hard for some people to understand that white people can grow up in the “hood”? It happens everyday, people. And, newsflash – the people you grow up around are often the ppl you take your style and language cues from. Back when I lived in Maine, I said “Wicked” all the time. It was what my friends said, so it seeped into my language. Out here it’s “hella” and “swag”. I don’t say it cos I”m “trying to be black”, I say it because that’s what my friends, of all races, say.
As for black girls not getting attention for rapping the same stuff Kreayshawn is rapping – nope. It’s not that simple, at all. It’s not a straight one to one. Kreayshawn’s appeal is not that she’s “acting black”. Her appeal comes from her melange of styles, which is really appealing to people, because I believe a lot of people are tired of the same old cliches in music, whether it’s female black rappers who act and dress overly sexual (lil kim) or plastic pop stars (britney, shakira, christina). Kreayshawn is taking rap/street culture (that she grew up and lived, mind you, she didn’t “appropriate” it), and mixing it witha sort of alternative look and feel, almost punk rock in a way. Add the queer vibe, and you end up with something unique. Show me a female black rapper right now doing something similar, who also has sstyle like Kreayshawn, cute homegirls, ect. Kreayshawn attracts because she’s something new and different. To only look at the fact that she’s rapping, and then question how come this “white girl rapper” is getting attention, is incredibly myopic.
shows how much you know, kreayshawn isn’t from oakland, she’s from piedmont. stop believing the hype.
We’ve seen almost everything up to the great takeover of Irony in the last ten years rehashed/appropriated/mashed-up/responded-to already with a wink, and so now we’re seeing the ouroboros snake eating it’s own tail. This woman was born in 1990, so how much does she even know about what she’s doing? Salt N Peppa we’re pushing it real good when she was pushing her torso along the carpet in diapers. This way of finding inspiration through tongue-in-cheek pastiche has gone on for so long now, how can you apply too much credit or criticism/blame on her either way? Its all meaningless at this point, all diluted.
My question is- how do you appropriate our current era in the future? If appropriation/response (or thesis/antithesis as a process itself really) is all art is now, then I’m looking forward for that which destroys the whole dialectic. My guess is it will be something spectacular and original and out of the blue and will just make us smile or laugh or cry or whatever based on no extraneous context needed to debate it.
If a white girl rapper from Oakland can sometimes just be a white girl rapper from Oakland, then why can’t some stuff just seem like a Salt N Peppa ripoff to me and not an astute cultural commentary or whatever?
I think some art is bad for very simple reasons. We just live in very foggy times.
Sisters, you’re mad at Kreayshawn, when you need to redirect that anger towards the system creating her popularity. There will always be a Kreayshawn, they will come and they will go, and as long as you focus the hate on her specifically you’ll support the system that is, as we speak, creating another one of her waiting in the wings. I think she’s coming by her style because that’s what she grew up in and admired (whether in Oakland or Piedmont or WHEREVER — we all absorb the same cultural influences in this day and age) — you can’t fault her for that. She’s just a kid creating in the way she knows to create, good or bad it’s not a conspiracy it’s a melange of influences. It’s more productive to fault the industry instead, for promoting someone of possibly limited talent who fits the non-threatening, cute-girl look that can be easily marketed as opposed to backing someone based on their talent alone — I mean, you KNOW there are better rappers out there, black OR white, who are ready for their big break but are getting ignored because they don’t fit a marketable set of stereotypes. (And you can say the same for any genre of music out there, face it!)
Just have to add my 2 cents. I don’t know if anyone mentioned this or not because I don’t have time to read all the comments but is anyone reminded of the Lil Wayne punk controversy from earlier this year? It’s interesting that this is like the “opposite” of that…hip hop instead of punk…white instead of black…female instead of male…huh. If you don’t know what I’m talking about here’s a picture: http://www.interviewmagazine.com/files/2011/03/21/img-lil-wayne-2_093004783426.jpg_vmed.jpg
So anyways a lot of punks got their pants twisted up over this saying “it wasn’t right” and then other punks called them “racist” and it went back and forth. I think what these two issues have in common is that in both cases cries of “racist” being thrown every which way and the level of personal offense people feel clouds what’s really at the heart of the matter, so Moya I really appreciate how nicely you articulate that in this article. Every time I get stuck trying to explain that it isn’t that it isn’t her being white, it isn’t that she’s a hipster, that I’m not pissed off that now people associate me with her because she “meow”s ETC. I just tell them to google “crunk feminist kreayshawn”, haha. THANK YOU! Anyways I think that bottom line the message is “don’t try to be something you’re not” cause no one is going to be fooled.
Real talk though, I think maybe if she got a suntan and tried hustling in a strip club or a street corner instead of Ikea she wouldn’t feel so comfortable degrading women as HER “bitches” and “hos”. If anyone reads this and personally knows her like so many of the commenters claim, please tell her that from me and add a “meow” at the end.
man lil weasel is a sellout. we’ve seen this coming a few years back anyways with that stupid “prom queen” trash and the recent unplugged performance with nothing BUT whyte folks in the audience. if i didn’t know any better he was performing at a fall out boy or death cab for cutie concert.him lookin’ like a afro-punk has nothing to do with “racism” at all. fuckin’ whyte folks need to stop that reverse racism shit just because we have a biracial president (which in my opinion just made race relations WORSE not better in this country). people forget or are too ignorant to know that punks were down with the hip-hop movement in new york in the 80s just as much as the punks in the valley were cool and down with the gangbangers like crips and the cholos in so. cali. they knew that being part of the counterculture, the fringes of society, was what they shared in common. if people see the similarities instead of just looking at the glaring differences there wouldn’t be these stupid-ass problems.
Okay,
I’ve changed my mind about Kreayshawn. I like her punk/Madonna from the early 80s/skate/lesbian thing plus bay area weed style…there are no black lady MCs doing anything like this as far as I know, so it’s not like she’s ripping off any black MCs with this style.
WOW yall are sooo salty this is nothing but another reason why people think black women are bitter and jealous….come on the girl can rap and umm excuse me nicki minaj is getting just as much if not more money or does that not matter because shes only part black or because she’s light skin or because she has “good hair” I dont understand she is not tearing down black women yall are by telling them if we have something we have to keep it for ourselves because thats the only way we will be good at it! #realtalk from a black woman who is letting somebody be who they are #notahater
well you aren’t helping black women look good with bad punctuation. not 1 period in there to break up this run-on dribble. trust femcees like stikki nikki gets just as much criticism from senor fly guy for being a gimmick too, i can only speak for myself and nobody else who commented on this story. the fact that you think she is a good rapper shows just how low the bar is for hip-hop and the direction it has gone in the past few years. wacka flocka has told the world he was retiring and i can’t wait to here other weak-ass sub-par artists like gucci mane, lil’ b and these scallywags follow suit.
I like how everything is always about race. Did anyone ever really think about this? Maybe she finds the black community interesting (hardly insulting to black Americans). She is trying to emulate what she finds interesting. She completely sucks, but I don’t think that it is meant to be derogatory or mean-spirited in any way.
Think about Eminem. He is another one who sucks, yet everyone (except me) loves him. A majority of his record sales come from the black community. And he has essentially done the exact same thing that this Kreayshawn chick is doing, just slightly better. He emulates the same thing. How come no was repulsed by Lady Sovereign? She is almost identical to this Kreayshawn chick. Why wasn’t she racist?
And I definitely don’t believe that Kreayshawn is trying to be demeaning to black women. I believe she is talking about “bitches” and speaking about all women whom she looks down upon. I doubt that she was singling out black women.
I think that all people need to learn to intermix with one another. Whites should be able to perform rap and hip-hop music and blacks should be able to be country singers, if that is what they desire. Black people are offended by Kreayshawn and the like, and white people are offended by Darius Rucker (black country star). It is absurd and a sad thing. By this time in our world, we should be able to live together without all of this hate. Blacks and white, and any other race, should be able to live peacefully beside one another happily.
I am a white woman and I have a black husband and mixed children. Two of my cousins are black and an aunt is as well. I suppose that this is part of the reason that I hate racism. I know some white women who are the scum of the earth and I know some black women who are as well. Being trashy, low-life, or worthless has nothing to do with race. In response to the other commenter, black people are not the only folks on welfare. There are plenty of other ethnicities who participate in the many welfare programs. I was raised on welfare. But I suppose that that is why I get along and like black people so much, right? That is a joke.
like i stated before her being whyte isn’t what bothers me. besides the fact that she has NO SKILLZ what irritates me is the message she’s sending out that EVERYBODY here seems to miss–that you don’t need a education to be rich and famous. this broad not only drops outta high school but turns down a opportunity of a free ride in film school to be a sub-par rapper. not everybody can be kanye west. 😀
and i have to correct you on 1 thing–black people aren’t the main supporters or reason of feminem’s success, it’s whyte folks. this has been true ever since the ’90s when suburbanites were attracted to the fuck-you attitude that gangsta rap emanated. over the years as rock has lost its edge and flair hip-hop picked it back up and gave it a makeover to the point that EVERYBODY is trying to copy the style and sound of the culture. now more than ever you have even MORE whyte people listening to, buying the music and attending hip-hop shows. i can tell you from my personal experience that whyte people support hip-hop more within the past 10 or so years than black people have, they’re too busy looking for the hook-up buying from a bootlegger or downloading a CD rip on-line instead of supporting the artists they supposedly admire. that disgusts me more than anything. and whoever made the wisecrack about blacks being on welfare need to kill themselves by baptizing themselves in a tub of battery acid.
I’ve read a number of similar critiques of Kreayshawn. What I think is that, imagine using a similar critique on black musicians playing heavy metal, or black athletes playing golf. Imagine white athletes accusing a black golfer of mimicking white golf culture, etc. Is it really fair to claim that a certain style or culture can’t be adopted by people of other races of cultures? Should black people be discouraged from playing death metal because its a “white” musical culture?
be careful, if you say what they don’t like/agree with they’ll call you a “bigot”. these broads spend too much time bashing black men and whyte women for me, they’re in no position to criticize anybody with their fucked-up way of thinking. fuckin’ internet intellectuals kill me with their big fancy words and psuedo-intelligence.
There’s an easy solution to your frustration: stop reading our “big fancy words” and spend your time on some sites more in line with your perspectives.
No one said Kreayshawn shouldn’t rap because she’s white. If you look at the artist links on this site, which have been up from day one, several of the rappers are white. But they don’t appropriate blackness in problematic, stereotypical ways in their art. Kreayshawn does and that was the problem outlined here.
The original post acknowledges and rejects Kreayshawn’s Nicole Wray, Missy and Aaliyah inspirations since Kreayshawn has only two black women in her video. You’ve mentioned the artist links in the sidebar multiple times. Seeing as how those links give little context to the discussion and this site has yet to post about a white artist, your mentioning of the sidebar links comes off as ‘some of our favorite artists are white.’
Still, who is going to blindly click through 50+ links in a sidebar? That’s a failure in design and usability if you have to direct multiple users to it as part of a discussion, no?
So in order to prove we’re not racist against white artists, we have to favorably profile a white artist? Sounds like your comment falls victim to the same tokenistic logic you’re accusing the author and the CFC of. In actuality, it seems you are salty because you got called on your failure to acknowledge that in fact there is not systemic discrimination against white artists on this site, but actually a very specific issues with the ways in which Kreayshawn does what she does. Because you and others who made this assertion failed to do your research properly on this site, now you are left having to justify your claims of racism in the face of blatant evidence to the contrary. As a multiracial collective, we don’t prove our antiracism by writing tokenistic paeans to prove our notions of inclusion. We simply live them out. Because the artists links on this site were chosen with care, what they prove is that we care about highlighting good hip hop music, no matter the race of the artist. (And the same research through which you ascertained that we haven’t written about lots of white rappers [and unapologetically so, since we are collective that largely focuses on the concerns of Women of Color] could have been used to actually go to the more obvious place and consider who in fact we do think are good rappers. So it’s interesting that presence of a profile of white rapper would cement our inclusivity, but the presence of music we like by these same artists is considered illegitimate. Sounds like some faulty logic to me. But I digress.)Our willingness to critique Kreayshawn proves in that same vein that we’re willing to call any artist on their bullshit, no matter her race as well, hence our willingness to also critique the major female rapper of the hour, Nicki Minaj.
So it sounds like your original point and your snarky jabs about site design really are evidence of what is known as a conclusion (i.e. that we are racist against white artists) searching for facts. And unfortunately, your facts lack facticity and your reasoning falls very short. Tough.
I think its funny how you all stereotype the identity of every black women rapper, and accuse Kreayshawn of parodying it. She’s white, big deal. She grew up in the ghetto, how she is, is just how she is. You’re looking too far into this. To be honest, most people like her because she’s “hipster” rather than anything else. Kreayshawn represents what a lot of the younger generation admires right now, whether that be negative or positive. And to everyone saying that “if she was black she wouldn’t be getting this attention”. How many white female rappers have ever been popular like this? I’m sure if a black female rapper had something unique such as Kreayshawn’s style of dress, if it was introduced to the right people, she’d be popular as well. Great example, Nicki Minaj. Kreayshawn was introduced to tumblr.. a website full of hipsters, causing her to go viral. Rebecca Black is also a result of going viral on tumblr. It’s all about being discovered.
At a certain point, this thread was still really about music. It leaned at times toward how that was affected by influence, and authenticity vs craftsmanship, not to mention major media exposure and how its bestowed, and yes race. A comment I made to that end was ignored, now I see this shit is blowing up for all the wrong reasons. My opinion? Kreayshawn sucks, but she is an innocent. The issues brought up by CFC are valid as hell. But I dont put the blame on anyone in particular, and I think its irrelevant in the equation of whether she is a good musician.
I’m sorry CFC, you gals are great. Don’t let popular topics get you off track.
love,
gabe
Let’s be honest: This post was written by an angry, jealous person.
Just because you can write an article in an editorial voice doesn’t make it right. If you really break this post down critically and objectively, you’ll see it’s full of holes.
Oh poor you. You make it sound like the world is against you and everyone else has it so easy.
Truth is, you either make life work for you no matter what hand you’ve been dealt or… you sit back, bitch and whine about it on a blog.
Reality is this: Kreayshawn took risks and put herself out there. You’re the hater on the sidelines, giving all the reasons why the world is unfair.
It’s easy to blame. It’s easy to complain. It’s easy to be a hater.
It’s hard to be the one who takes chances and risks, especially when they live in a world filled with haters and whiners like you.
Cause from where I’m sitting I could rattle off TONS of famous black women, black women who are successful in business, black women who are a positive influence in their community. But you won’t find them here because they don’t orient themselves toward hater-tainment. They make things happen and they don’t buy into all the woe is me crap.
So keep blogging and bitching about how life is unfair. And every step of the way you’ll have the bitter aftertaste of haterade in your mouth, watching 21-year-old girls from every race get rich.
The CFC on being called “haters”:
http://www.crunkfeministcollective.com/2011/07/11/hateration-holleration/
Peace.
So I’m a white male who grew up in a lower income black neighborhood in the late mid/late 80’s early 90’s. When I was young the black kids I was friends with wanted me to be more like them style wise. They kind of put that subtle peer pressure on me to get me to fit in with what they were doing. They would clown me in a friendly way if I wasn’t wearing the right shoes or didn’t know the words to whatever hip-hop track was popular atm etc. The truth is that people are going to conform to whatever environment they come from and they should be allowed to express that the same way you are allowed to express whatever you picked up growing up around WP.
Maybe this looks like appropriation to you and that’s fine. But Maybe it was her black friends that put her up to it or encouraged/influenced her behavior/personality. I’ve had black friends become upset when I showed up looking to weird (white) I’ve been told by black friends that I used to be cooler (more black) when I was younger.
I bet the white kids you grew up with were much more comfortable with you when you took on/displayed aspects of their culture. Well, the reverse is also true.
I appreciate the sincerity of your narrative, and as a Black person who definitely grew up with Black kids who called me “white” for speaking proper English and white kids who liked me because I “wasn’t like the other black kids,” I hear you.
The critical difference is that as a white male, you have white privilege. So beyond the peer pressure you felt as a kid to conform to your surroundings, this in no way changes the incredible levels of social privilege you have as a white male in this society. This means that you can put on and take off your “cooler”/”blacker” performance at will–something folk of color can’t do.
The same is true for Kreayshawn and the original post points to this. There’s nothing incredibly impressive or likeable about her rapping ability (lyrically or otherwise). Folks like her because she’s a novelty. She’s a white girl who performs in a manner that we culturally tend to associate with Black girls, even though if a Black girl did what she was doing, that sista would not be going viral on youtube. So it is appropriation and it’s problematic, because whiteness is valued as whiteness and whiteness is valued when it can effectively perform what is culturally deemed black. It is also problematic that she and her sister use the n-word (even though I know K has claimed she’s stopped. I’m not convinced.)
Anyway, I hear you on the murkiness of cultural exchange, but that doesn’t mitigate the ways in which white privilege functions to value whiteness in particular ways. You seem to have an experience where whiteness was devalued, but put it in context. Whiteness being devalued among the kids you grew up with will not greatly affect your ability to achieve anything in the world, because you are still a white male. But to use your example, a Black kid learning to code switch between whiteness and blackness effectively, will affect much, much more than how they negotiate life on their block. It will literally determine educational and job opportunities, experiences with police, experiences while shopping, and on and on. So we can’t equate the need to be accepted among peers in a very specific context with the larger structural and social implications of the ways blackness and whiteness get performed and who benefits from those performances.
“Anyway, I hear you on the murkiness of cultural exchange, but that doesn’t mitigate the ways in which white privilege functions to value whiteness in particular ways. ”
I agree with you on the privilege point and I guess I should have made a disclaimer that I wasn’t attempting to compare or equate my experience with you or any other POC. I only wanted to point out that in my experience and circle of adolescent friends, my adoption of certain cultural traits was not seen as appropriation and was in fact encouraged and basically required. That isn’t a complaint, I just wanted to point out that although your view of what constitutes appropriation is well supported and reasonable, that doesn’t mean it’s universal or fundamentally true.
Also, White privilege is going to exist no matter what cultural traits individual white people choose to express. I think it’s fair to attack privilege but culture is fluid. We live in a culture where culture itself is a commodity so I can see why someone would see Kreayshawn as a theif. But then again, American blacks have been putting their culture out there for general consumption for decades. You can’t do that on one hand and than act like it’s under lock and key with the other.
No one is saying Black culture is under lock and key. But if you acknowledge that appropriation is occurring and that white privilege exists, then one of the implications that goes along with that is that Black folks don’t benefit from that appropriation, and not only don’t we benefit, but we are often injured by it through the perpetuation of stereotypes. Racism is not always about intent, but it is always about impact. So while I understand the negotiations white kids in certain cultural spaces make, as a Black person I and others have every right to question what those cultural appropriations cost us. In Kreayshawn’s case, her appropriations of Black womanhood, specifically, certainly traffic in particular stereotypes about Black women’s sassiness, cultural uncouthness, etc. But while those stereotypes have made Black women largely irrelevant in mainstream hip hop, they make Kreayshawn a star. That’s a problem and it should be called out, no matter Kreayshawn’s benign intent. In fact, white privilege often allows white folks to not acknowledge the ways in which racial privilege is functioning to their benefit, particularly if they can justify their choices as being a result of cultural fluidity. But plenty of white rappers negotiate this fluidity without being racially offensive, and if Kreayshawn respects the culture she’s participating in then she should care about how her performance affects those who influenced it, namely Black women. Unfortunately, I think her white privilege allows her to not deal with it on the grounds that she’s post-race or she’s transcended race, and clearly with the exception of the occasional Black celebrity, Black folks, particularly the around the way Black girls that influenced Kreayshawn’s style, don’t get to transcend anything.
How would you feel about her if she wasn’t making any money? I think that you’re correct in that what she’s doing isn’t befitting black folks. But I think that in the long run cultural exchange and appropriation going both ways will eventually allow us to see each other as human beings first and foremost.
Also while I agree that Kreayshawn is perpetuating a stereotype, she is basing her persona on a template followed by every single mainstream rapper in the business. Kreyshawn is following the example set by the most influential segment of black Americans. I haven’t read your blog before so maybe you have countless articles denouncing mainstream rappers for perpetuating stereotypes.
Kreyshawn is following the example set by the most influential segment of black Americans.
Yeah, you really need to do some more reading if you think that mainstream rappers are “the most influential segment of black Americans.”
We have many articles critiquing rappers for a range of things, but we also respond to timely issues, particularly around women in the Hip Hop generation, which includes women who participate in Hip Hop culture. Also I have equal disdain for your everyday forms of white racism and the ones off of which people make money.
Also I simply don’t share your optimism about the racial benefits of cultural appropriation, perhaps because I haven’t seen the benefits you’ve talked about in my 30 years as a Black person. However, I both teach about and live the implications of white appropriations of Black culture, beginning with the minstrel shows of the 19th century, Blues and Rock music in the 20th (white kids loved rock-n-roll, but they certainly didn’t invent it. And it didn’t cause a racial utopia in the 50s and 60s when it was all the rage. Now go ask your average white kid (or your average black kid for that matter) who invented the genre and I guarantee you they couldn’t name a Black artist. That’s what the end result of unchecked appropriation looks like), and now Hip Hop culture in the 20th and 21st. So to be honest, the historical record stands in stark contrast to your optimism. Mostly I find that cultural appropriation makes whites feel like they are less racist because they don’t personally hate black ppl, but in terms of actually inspiring them to use their white privilege to challenge the kinds of institutional racism which benefit them daily, I see very little of that. And the goal of anti-racist activism was never to make whites feel good or even to make them appreciate Blacks; it was to raise their consciousness so they would help to challenge institutional power. Somehow a white rapper uncritically appropriating Black culture seems like a very warped version of these goals.
I think I love you (in a not creepy way).
befitting should read benefiting
“Yeah, you really need to do some more reading if you think that mainstream rappers are “the most influential segment of black Americans.”
You need to get your nose out of those books and spend some time with the youths of this country if you don’t think they are the most influential.
So, being a Black woman doesn’t count? I need some White guy to tell me who are the most influential people of my race?
Maybe you could link me to that book you were talking about. The one about that other massively influential group of BP heretofore unnamed.
#1: There is no one book written by or about influential Black people. Thousands of books, magazines, articles, movies, and works of art have been made on that single subject. If you’re knowledge of Black people included more than BET and your childhood friends, you would know this.
#2: If you were really interested, you would research for yourself. Why should it be a Black person’s responsibility to hold your hand and teach you? You can spell “Google”, can’t you?
“There is no one book written by or about influential Black people. Thousands of books, magazines, articles, movies, and works of art have been made on that single subject.”
I never said there weren’t influential black people besides rappers. However, as a GROUP in this day and age, when it comes to young people, hip-hop and R&B artists are far and away the most influential. I don’t need you to agree with me or teach me anything because I know this to be true. If you can refute this with something other than “i’m black so take my word for it” than by all means present it. Or don’t. I don’t care.
You said:
“Kreyshawn is following the example set by the most influential segment of black Americans.”
You did not specify young people. And even if it were true, it is you who would need to provide the evidence because we’re the ones living amongst them. We ARE them. So of course we would have more authority on the matter. I don’t care how many “ghetto passes” you got when you are litte. If a White man is going to tell *this* Black woman who the most influential people of her race are (young people or no), he needs to prove it to *me*.
So fine maybe they aren’t as influential as whatever group you are thinking of. (still wondering what that could possibly be) That wasn’t even my original point anyway.
The point is, mainstream rappers are very, very influential culturally in our society. I know this. everyone knows this. it’s not super secret black person knowledge. People look up to them, they imitate them, they want to be like them. They want to BE them. And it is they who are the main perpetrators of these stereotypes you are talking about here. Kreayshawn is simply parroting them like every other kid in America white, black, asian or whatever. Hip-Hop dominates American pop culture. One does not need to be black to see the effects of that. This is no longer “your” thing. it’s ubiquitous. it’s everywhere and that’s all there is to it.
Also hello who do you think is buying all these records and going to these shows? Cultural appropriation of hip hop by WP is the engine that drives the industry. POC artists are benefiting from this appropriation in terms of real dollars and cents.
“Also hello who do you think is buying all these records and going to these shows? Cultural appropriation of hip hop by WP is the engine that drives the industry. POC artists are benefiting from this appropriation in terms of real dollars and cents.”
That’s one way to look at it, particularly if you are interested in offering an apologetic for white racism. However, scholars like myself and many, many hip hop artists actually acknowledge that because it is white youth who are buying much of mainstream hip hop, white youth are the ones that specifically benefit from the barrage of cultural and racist stereotypes that come out of the music. In other words, just like in the minstrel era, white ppl have always been willing to invest their money in forms of Black entertainment that perpetuate stereotypes about Black ppl while telling themselves that they are simply enjoying the culture.
Furthermore, when others point to Black rappers and accuse them solely of perpetuating stereotypes, I always point to the fact that it is white controlled corporations that determine what gets airplay and white consumers who attend most shows (and tours are where rappers make their money.) So all you’ve succeeded in proving by admitting white infatuation with the culture is that history has repeated itself again–white folks are using their money to participate in the commodification and perpetuation of stereotypes that are racially detrimental to Black ppl. That is actually not what I would call a benefit.
This sounds a lot like the “Arab Trader Argument”, i.e. “that group did it first, so it shouldn’t be a problem.”
As Crunktastic already pointed out many people, including the CFC, have taken people to task for perpetuating stereotypes. No one has been immune to criticism.
I suppose there is some echo of the arab trader argument, however if influential figures from your group normalize and popularize a specific behavior, it’s a bit silly to complain about the people who imitate them much further down the road.
But I know the drill. it’s always worse when a WP does it.
And this dismissive attitude is exactly why I haven’t been taking you seriously.
It has been stated by Crunktastic and by myself in the previous you *just now* responded to that NO ONE has been immune to criticism. Crunktastic has also been EXTREMELY patient in breaking things down for you point by point, yet you refuse to come down from your “Ivory Tower” (pun intended). Don’t blame anyone else for your refusal to learn.
“And this dismissive attitude is exactly why I haven’t been taking you seriously.”
Sorry, it’s just that i’ve heard it all before ad nauseum and in the end it’s just not that convincing. And even when it is, it’s so unrealistic/idealistic as to be irrelevant. At the end of the day you want WP to treat you 1000 times better than you treat each other. Good luck with that.
signing off.
Wow, Snowflake. I thought you were genuinely sincere in grappling with these conversations until that last statement. “At the end of the day you want WP to treat you 1000 times better than you treat each other. Good luck with that.” The “you people don’t know how to treat each other, so why should white people treat you well” meme is the height of white racism, white racial arrogance and white privilege. You have just demonstrated by your own words the reasons why Black folk have every right to be suspicious of white cultural appropriations and the white people who defend them. As soon as you are effectively challenged on your privilege, you engage in racial injuries through the type of offensive comment you have just offered here, and then you go on and live your life without consequences while Black people are left to deal with being disrespected. Somehow, it seems to me that you should have learned better during all the time you spent “playing in the dark” in your youth. Apparently not. And now I could kick myself for actually believing you were a white person interested in genuine dialogue and open to considering a well-argued point of view. Instead what you want is for white folks to be able to do what they do without accountability, and for Black folks to lay down and take it. When we don’t, white privilege allows you to dismiss us as idealistic or behind the times. Either way your white privilege doesn’t force you to change your behavior. But I’m done teaching. I simply took the time to break it down so you could see how your own white racial privilege creeped into this conversation and reared its ugly head in the worst way possible. Good luck with that.
“you engage in racial injuries through the type of offensive comment you have just offered here, and then you go on and live your life without consequences while Black people are left to deal with being disrespected.”
Alright. Your right. I went to far there and I apologize. I do see why what I said was offensive. You have been patient and I appreciate you putting yourself out there. It wasn’t my intention to take advantage of that even though that’s what ended up happening.
At least you understand why you harbor hate. now get over it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwAzIiLDhvM&feature=player_embedded
This is relevant ^