Note: This is the first post in our month long series on sex, love, and relationships. To protect the anonymity of the CFs and so that we may speak more freely, many of us will be posting this month under the Collective pseudonym CrunkAsHell. We will also let you know whenever a post is NSFW (not safe for work). Happy Reading!
Like most conservative Christian folks, I grew up believing, that sex was reserved for marriage. For years my sexual experiences were laden with guilt. I routinely went years at a time with no sexual contact, until I would finally, in a fit of weakness give in to my urges. I was caught in a continual cycle of self-denial, self-indulgence, guilt, confession, rinse and repeat, topped off by five years of celibacy. I was treating sex as if it were a bad habit that I desperately needed to break.
All of that is a prelude to a confession: I’m single. I’m saved (as in born-again Christian). And I have sex. Unapologetically.
At my former church, I spent at least one Friday a month, hanging with the dynamic, beautiful, thoughtful, educated sisters of faith who did ministry work. These women were not stuffy; they were totally real: about how lonely it is without someone; about how they never saw themselves at 35 or 40 still being alone with no prospects; about how frustrating the prospect of perpetual celibacy is. But I respect these women because they decided that “doing it God’s way is best,” even if that means an indefinite period of celibacy. And so inevitably there would be the roll call of who had been celibate the longest. 5 years, 10 years, etc… And because these women believed strongly in the Bible as a rule book, no extramarital expressions of sexuality are permitted, not even masturbation.
I, however, have had a long-standing off-again/on-again relationship with more than one B.O.B. (battery-operated boyfriend). And I simply don’t believe that someone else should get to touch my clitoris when I don’t.
So while I love these women and while I believe we love the same God, I do not love their sexual ethics. I do not think one can live and thrive in them. For me, Christianity is too much about grace, too much about freedom to engender the continual guilt, frustration, and anxiety, which I continually confronted merely for expressing my sexual selfhood. Surely there must be a better way.
But when it comes to the sex life of the single Christian, it’s hard to take the Bible as the gospel truth, because for us, their ain’t no good news in it. Song of Solomon’s erotic imagery notwithstanding, no scriptural loopholes permitting me to get my much-needed freak on presented themselves.
But a loophole is not what I needed. I needed a bigger view of God.
For so many women, the biggest faith struggle of their life has been “believing God for a mate.” Year after year, these women serve, pray, and live chaste, believing that God just requires more faith, or alternately, that God is still working on them. And the Black church, in its refusal to consider the impact of over-incarceration, poor education, underemployent, violence, and AIDS, on Black families and heterosexual Black marriages, only makes it worse by reinforcing Black women’s feelings of personal and relational inadequacy. The Church’s parochial sexual politics and double standards have made it even harder for Black women to find the kinds of relationships they so desperately seek. My sister friends want dudes who are in church often, “know the Word,” love God, and are willing to court them for as long as it takes with little to no physical contact. Most preachers don’t adhere to that standard, and while there are some men who would, there are many many, legitimately good brothers who won’t. Our churches rarely even preach celibacy to men. <Side Eye>
So when I recognized the way social conditions and religious guilt shaped my options for partnering, I began to ask different questions about my relationship to God, to the Bible, and to faith. Because my friends were following the rules, to a tee, and yet the rewards elude(d) them.
I don’t want the good stuff, sexual or otherwise, to elude me while I’m over here dutifully following the rules, so I’ve actively and painfully gone in search of a better way, filled with life affirming principles and enough grace to let me enjoy my life and some good sex, too. ‘Cause frankly, now that I’m over 30, getting some, getting it good, and getting it on a regular basis is non-negotiable.
I refuse any longer to live a fear-driven life, based upon a set of rules that mete out punishment and reward based on how well I perform. I think Jesus came to free us from performance driven living. As women, we are no stranger to performance driven lives, which often leave us empty and unfulfilled as we try to be all things to all people. And then we turn around and try to do this same thing in our faith, and it isn’t working. For Black women who are already forced to be superhuman in every other aspect of the world, our faith space, personal and communal, can only be liberatory when it permits us to be fully human, sexuality and all.
If we choose to be honest and intentional, we can build life-affirming intimate relationships, both inside and outside of marriage. But our conservatism has stripped women of the right to be intentional about engaging and enjoying their sexuality, even causing some women to avoid condoms and birth control, so they don’t have to acknowledge their choices. AIDS is real, fam.
Sex is a form of creative power. And it is in the literal fact of its creative aspects that we feel alive, fully human, and connected. I think God wants nothing less than this for us, and that requires regular, intimate connections of bodies, or at the very least a very regular, intentional and unapologetic intimate connection with our own body.
So sex is back on the table for me in an emotionally safe intimate connection with another person. Because marriage or no, I am clear about this one thing: celibacy is not for me. I need connection. I need intimacy. I need sex. Period.
That’s why I’m unapologetically single, saved, and sexin’.
Yes! I’m waving my feminist church fan over here!
Thank you, sis, for this honest meditation.
This was a great read. Ive posted it everywhere lol….luvs it!
Thanks, CF, for having my back. Our conversations have been most helpful in this journey.
If YOU want to have sex then you have the choice. However you will be held accountable for minipulating the word of God to make what you are doing okay. Young Christians who read this and accept your words as gospel and fall into sin will be on you. To much is given much is required and right now you are using your voice to bring down the very thing you stand for. How can you believe some of the bible and actually continue in that religion. You may be single and sexin but you are not living by what God has called you into, which we all fall. But dont tell people it is okay according to God to have sex just bc you dont want to feel convicted.
1 Corinthians 6:9-18 (New International Version, ©2010)
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Sexual Immorality
12 “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 You say, “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both.” The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”[b] 17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.[c]
18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.
If you need more scripture check out Hebrews 13:4-8 that says Jesus is the same today and everyday. So if he said it is wrong, it is wrong. I am not talking to non-christians but christians. I love you as a sister in Christ and I know God will speak to your heart about this issue.
Sex is pleasurable yes, but a life with God is more pleasurable.
Sex is pleasurable yes, but a life with God is more pleasurable.
Your statement assumes I have to choose between the two. I simply don’t agree. Let us also remember that in the scriptures in 1 Cor 6, Paul actually was speaking literally, not metaphorically about prostitutes. He was speaking about new converts who slept with temple prostitutes at some of the temples of other gods and goddesses there in Corinth, which had a range of idolatrous religions. Hence v. 15. So it is not clear that sexual immorality specifically refers to premarital sex here.
2 Peter 18-20
18For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
The bible says that in the endtime even Christians will begin to question the word and I’m sorry to tell you that this is what is happening to you. You have chosen self over being christlike. What is the definition of being a follower? We are to be like Christ and he did not have premarital sex. If you want to do it, it is your choice but dont destroy the word of God to make your choices okay. If that wasnt enough I will add more to prove God wants us to be holy.
Ephesians 5:8-14 (New International Version, ©2010)
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. 14 This is why it is said:
“Wake up, sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”
We are to be a light.
Also,
Hebrews 13:4
4 Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.
Clearly states that the sexually immoral will be judged and in verse 8 says God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Or am I taking that out of context, it is pretty straight forward.
Here are more:
Acts 15:20
20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
1 Corinthians 6:13
13 “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food”—but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
And another which clearly states:
2 Corinthians 12:21
21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.
Galatians 5:19
19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
Your Father in heaven says this is a sinful nature. As a Christian and seeing the word above what other excuse can you make?
Do what you will but dont obstruct the word and here is a scripture to sum it up.
2 Peter 2
1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
4For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8(For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man’s voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
17These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
I guess all this is also not relevant to sexual sin in the lives of Christians either? I am sure you will find some way to make this okay. I pray that your heart is changed and you see and feel the love of Christ, because his love and a relationship with him would make you not even want to sin and when you do sin, you want to get it right immediately. You see Jesus is not only my savior but my friend and sin grieves God and do not want to grieve him. he means that much to me. Will I mess up yes, will he forgive me if I ask for forgiveness, yes he will. Will I be okay will sinning onto my temple, the place Jesus lives? No I am not okay with that. This walk is bigger than sex.
This is a heartfelt and honest exploration of our intimate relationships with our sensual, sexual and spiritual selves. For those of us who might not identify as Christian, I think we are still (mis)guided by the racial and sexual constructions of Black womanhood that suggest we are never “good” enough. Thank you for so much sharing.
I agree, CF. I think what is perhaps more infuriating is the way that the Black Church reinforces and reinscribes those very problematic social constructions, under the guise of affirming the Bible.
Anything we “desire” to do that is NOT in accord with what GOD has purposed it, it is transgression. Sin is NOT associated with the act of transgression. Once lust is formed in the heart, it is sin. This is the desire to transgress. To sin is a state of being, at the point at which we desire to transgress. That is the actual separation from God. The more we sin the more we will desire to sin and the farther we are drawn away from God, by our OWN selfish lusts. If we sin and live, it is by the grace of God. He is so merciful he gives us the opportunity to turn away from the desire to sin. But the only thing, we do NOT know when our time is up. My question is; how can one be saved with a desire to transgress?
This was one powerful piece of work, Sis. I (now in my mid-30s) made this decision a few years back after never seeing any fruit on my tree in the forest of relationships. In May, I’ll be married because of that brave choice – not just sexually, but spiritually. I allowed myself to be fully free. I thank God that I did.
Best!
Congratulations and thanks for reading!
I have just forwarded the link to this post to several friends, a few students and a family member. While they don’t want to hear it from me, I think the message that “Sex is a form of creative power” is one that so many of my sisters have been waiting to hear from somewhere.
Love this.
Good thing salvation through Jesus Christ is about freedom and grace, not uncomfortable rules and self-denial. Where else could we exercise our God-given creative power to create a bigger view of God, one that freely adjusts to our needs in our time…our way. #not
Thanks for reading. I happened to see the link to your blog, and I read some of your writing. It’s absolutely beautiful — I particularly loved the 30 things you learned in your 30s post. So to be honest, your sarcasm here seems not at all to match the tone of the things you’ve learned in your own journey, at least as you write about them on your page. In any case, I can see God’s work in your life; it makes me appreciate God’s work of freedom and grace, much needed correctives to my lifetime struggle with legalism, in my own.
Hey CrunkAsHell, thanks for dropping in and for the kind words. Writers have an arsenal of tools from which to convey a theme, invoke an emotion…I hope my choice of tool doesn’t distract from what I intended to create – a view of opposites and contrasts – questions.
Is fornication still pre-marital or extramarital sexual intercourse, relations, expressions? Did God set a boundary and standard as it relates to sexual intercourse, that’s still valid? If He did, do we have the authority and freedom to expand that boundary/standard of God based on: the level of difficulty (“it’s too hard”), the aversion to denying self/self-expression, the existence of social and gender double-standards (“preachers/men don’t adhere”), the fight for unbound liberation, being covered by grace, in search of a “better” way? Who else (thieves, liars?) and to what else (loving our enemies?) can we apply similar sentiments of “legalism” and living a “fear-driven life” based on rules?
Needless to say, this post inspired a slew of questions in me, and I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. It’s given me a newfound understanding of what I need to share with my children (daughter AND son)…bless!
Salvation through Jesus Christ is about “reconciling us with a sinless God” through the pure blood of Jesus Christ! John 3:16
This was definitely a good post! I had to smile a bit because although I have not been saved (still figuring out my “religion”), I’m very spiritual and talk with God often. And i had a story that is sort of an example to this. So my ex boyfriend was very involved in the church, however, we still had sex occasionally. One day he called me and asked me if i would be ok with us no longer having sex anymore. AT ALL! I asked why and he told me that he knew it was wrong in God’s eyes and that he felt that it would strengthen our relationship. Good points, but for some reason I just wasn’t having it. It seemed as if he had really made up his mind about it, so I asked how he would feel if i said i don’t agree. He said well…. and nothing else. Needless to say we had a long argument. Not because of the sex, but more because he had tried to decide for the both of us and then talk to me!?! We somehow agreed to a trial run, which lasted about two weeks and led him to tell me he would NEVER suggest that again. Needless to say, I’m single and not having sex..for my own reasons, but i don’t judge either way. As humans we have needs!
Thanks for sharing your truth! If I were to define it in one word, I’d call it LIBERATION! Self-love is beautiful and powerful. I’m excited about this young woman thinking for herself, defining and honoring her sexuality/spirituality/theology without checking in with the pastor, the first lady and all committees of the church. It seems that she has met, conferred with and listened to the divine counsel within (including her sex goddess). What’s fascinating to me is that I doubt many Christian men have these discussions, questions or concerns of guilt, shame or social stigma associated with extramarital sex. Did Christian men receive a special memo or pass from God? Does this mean that men are measured by different religious laws regarding sex? Are sexual norms social constructs that have been declared (by Christian men and men of other faith traditions) as divine decrees, to control women’s bodies, sexuality and their progeny? Thus, we have “illegitimate” children. That’s BULL SHIT! I applaud this young sister, but I caution all women who have found this level of liberation to be vigilant about protecting their health (mind, body, and spirit). Our bodies are precious vessels of energy and life, which contain and exude our sexual power, among other things. Sexin’ with a lot of men, mixing energies/body fluids with the wrong men- it only takes one- can negatively affect our health (mind, body, spirit). Self-love is the wellspring of care for one’s mind, body and spirit.
If you have not read Sexuality and the Black Church, by Kelly Brown Douglas and Black Feminist Thought, by Patricia Hill Collins, I highly recommend them for personal reading, book clubs, etc. In my humble opinion, there are many things we need to rethink in the Church and in our communities.
Peace~
Liberation is exactly right! 🙂 And yes, I do think the sexual discourses of the church are designed to control women and force them into submission, but I think that many conservative church folk are comfortable with the erroneous notion that their understandings of theology are totally God inspired, and that they are free of the power-laden, male-dominated, conservative hermeneutic frames in which we have been taught to understand scripture. And I think Jesus’ own engagement with religious zealots is my best model for how to deal with them in my life.
I hear you on the caution to be discriminating in my sexual choices, and I agree. Show me the person that is not particularly thoughtful about their sexual choices; and I’ll show you someone who’s rebelling against some inner discomfort or imposing set of rules. At this point, my liberation is about the freedom to be intentional in making healthy choices without guilt.
You’ve missed the point completely.
Liberation? 2 Corinthians 3:17 says where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. That should be all the liberation that you need. You’re basically condoning sin and that can NEVER be right.
You can’t satisfy you flesh and your spirit at the same time because the two work against one another. The guilt you speak of is your spirit telling you that you are wrong. When you know better and you intentionally do wrong that’s called wickedness.
This is not sound doctrine whatsoever, but is is your opinion and you are entitled to one. Fortunately Romans 8:1 says There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
God Bless.
I understand the frustration, being celibate many years before marriage myself but we must go to word for true guidance. A wise woman of God shared these scriptures with me.
* Be careful not to abuse Grace > Romans 6:1-2
* Be careful not to be lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God > II Timothy 3
* Be careful not to turn your ears towards truth but towards fables > II Timothy 4:1-4.
Yes. These are scriptures I know well. Thanks for reminding me of them. They are some of the standard go-to Scriptures (along with 1 Cor 6) whenever anyone in the church starts talking about the two things that make us most afraid of “losing God’s favor” — grace and sexual expression.
One of the things I wonder about however is that often when we speak of grace in the Church, folks immediately perceive the invocation of grace as unrestrained license to sin. Therefore, they only know how to respond to it, by reimposing rules. So rather than tell me what grace doesn’t allow me to do, tell me what it does allow me to do. It’s a question I’ve asked many times before, and the reality is that we don’t think of Grace as freedom and as the conduit to liberty. We think of it as safety net to catch us when we break “the rules.” And it may be that; but it is much more than that. I think this scares us, but I think Jesus died to grant us a grace walk. I certainly don’t want to cheapen His grace, as precious as it is, but I also don’t want to continue to erroneously back door legalistic living because I’m afraid to go out of bounds. At the end of the day, if the adage we hear in Church on Sunday is true, that it’s not about “rules it’s about relationship” then I’m clear that God is guiding this path, and I’m following, and He’ll keep me on track, not for the sake of His rules, but for the sake of our relationship.
You said:
“At the end of the day, if the adage we hear in Church on Sunday is true, that it’s not about “rules it’s about relationship” then I’m clear that God is guiding this path, and I’m following, and He’ll keep me on track, not for the sake of His rules, but for the sake of our relationship.”
I interpret this as you saying that God is guiding you to a path of extramarital sex, and that because God loves you and you two have a relationship, he’ll keep you on track as you step out of his boundaries. That negates itself. Why would God lead you down a path he said not to travel, and then step out of his own boundaries? That would make null and void said boundaries, and perhaps even null and void said God.
When God sent his son Jesus Christ into the world to be beaten down and hung on a tree to die then 3 days later, raised from the dead…that was “for the sake of our relationship” (to the reconciled back to him by the shedding of pure blood)! But when someone becomes a born again believer (saved)…it is about “for the sake of His rules,”…they are called – commandments! Fornication is sin! Continuous (habitual) sin means…you are not His (born again believer/saved). You can’t be considered a “born again believer” and not “believe the Word of God”.
So I can understand why you would think fornication is OK…because all sinners thinks/says that “sin is OK” and that “GOD KNOWS THEIR HEART”!
Am I perfect…No! But God IS… and his Word does not change to fit our sinful desires. Call it for what it really is…You want to have sex but please leave God out of it! Stop it!!!
Amen!
Thanks for your comment! God is good and I pray people will use love and not condemnation to help others see the BEAUTY that a true life of faith brings. Sadly, if you don’t truly have it in your heart to do something, a person will feel they are missing something. God is good and he loves us so much that he will fulfill all our needs those we know about and those we have never discovered! Amen? The benefits of real faithfulness which for me involves not having sex before marriage and being faithful in marriage among other things is – simply amazing!
WOW!!! Growing up a PK, I have heard all of the rhetoric of saving it for marriage! I am now 35 and still not married! 2 years ago, I told my dad… a pastor of over 35 years,who told me I needed to get on the good foot about getting a husband and getting married and giving him some grand babies…I told him “If I hadnt been a “good girl” all these years, you probably would have had all that! Im about to do me and stop living for the crowd!” He laughed and said, well….. and walked away. Mind you, I have a brother who is 10 years younger than myself who was given condoms at 9 and was always “encouraged” to get girls! the hypocrisy and double standard was obviously only recognized by my sister and myself! Thank you for this piece! I am going to post it on my FB wall so all the church folk who are constantly trying to reel me in and keep me in line, can now KNOW for a fact that I am single, saved and SEXIN!!
Sweetheart, I think the problem is that you have “kept” yourself for all the wrong reasons – for your dad. Just because you are a PK doesn’t mean you have a relationship with God. Give yourself a chance to just talk to him and ask him to show you what you really need cause a man and children are not always what we NEED before we truly get in touch with who we are in Christ. Who you are in Christ is not somehow apart from who you are when you look in the mirror. I get so disappointed when young christian women use celibacy as some type of vehicle to a man who will marry them. Again, really being a person of the lord is truly off the chain good!!! We see this sterile view of God and all the hypocrisy others bring into the picture and become dismayed with it all but hang in there baby! Don’t throw in the towel, ask God to truly show you what your true passion is in life. It ain’t about your dad, your church folk but about your one on one relationship with the most high. Go head, ask him what you should do next, he will tell you. After-all, the fact that you are breathing is because of him.
Thank you so much for this post! It’s really an opportunity to have more conversations about church politics and black female sexuality.
It’s a very sensitive topic for me because I’ve been recovering from frigidity issues – issues tied to emotional and childhood abuse but which the Church can get you to overlook by reframing your celibacy and frigid behavior as a “virtue.”
It’s still hard to really talk about because just admitting that you have such issues makes you a loser. It’s especially hard because, in the rest of secular culture, you ARE a loser.
Still, it’s complicated because celibacy provides a space for retreat – where you don’t have to keep faking it or confronting your performance anxieties and failures to live up to the expectation that, as a black woman, you’re supposed to be a hot thing (and not some frigid girl).
Not to mention that the church’s celebration of celibacy creates a space for others to avoid not just their sexual fears and dysfunctions, but also their sexual preferences. In the group I talk to, there are some who are closeted and have been encouraged to remain in the closet.
Just so many issues we need to unpack. I think a main challenge is to confront the ways that celibacy can be oppressive and the ways it can also provide a space to work on your issues before bravely heading back into the sexual arena.
We need both church and secular culture to be able to affirm women and their choices, no matter what they are, so that they’re neither shamed for their “frigidity” (or inappropriately praised for it) or shamed for their sexual activity.
thank you so much for sharing this! your words here are really powerful and speak to the complexity of sexuality and what we mean when we say sexual liberation.
This!!!! —> “We need both church and secular culture to be able to affirm women and their choices, no matter what they are, so that they’re neither shamed for their “frigidity” (or inappropriately praised for it) or shamed for their sexual activity.”
PREACH!
All I can say is, AMENt to Anon and the author of this post. I’m still trying to recover from the mind warping of 21 years in church as a PK. Worse I have a fraternal male twin, so I’ve surely seen the double standard in action. The church scares women into submission and sets them up for failure. Even supposing the tired rhetoric of maidenhood got us some husbands, we’d probably be suffering still because the church has no framework for a healthy sexuality. There is only fear (the virgins and celibate) and failure (the single mothers), in the eyes of the church. The older married women in the church act like their children came from the stork and they are as pure as the Virgin Mary. Where is the example? I thank you heartily for this post, and ignore all these negative “Christian” posts. Misery loves company. Almost nothing in the life is truly reward based and I seriously doubt getting a mate is either. We have to feel intimacy with another being first and that won’t happen while we are keeping score of who is holiest.
Let me affirm that you are not a loser due to a past that you had no control over. I agree that we do need both perspectives of church and secular knowledge but it is so important to be clear about what the “church” is. So often we allow other peoples actions, words and sometimes messed up deeds determine what church is for us. Try taking your concerns about your past, and feeling of frigidity to God – directly. Give yourself at least 10 days with just talking to the Lord as if you were talkin to a good friend who has your back and see what happens. I am speaking from experience because “church” can be a messed up place to be, if you are not in a healthy church, not a perfect church, but one that will put you in touch with who you are, how to unpack our luggage from our past and then when we have better capacity – learn to love ourselves more than we ever knew possible.;-) I am on the other side of this journey and I have to tell you sistah, it is oh soooooo good! Do I have challenges, yes, but they are not the same and I don’t see them in the same light. Challenges are just new test that I will pass with God’s help to get to the next wonderful plateau in life. Keep your faith sistah, keep your faith! This world is messed up and many are being confused – keep your faith!
I feel you. As a Latina, I know that perspective is not just resonating with black women. That double standard is in our culture too.
Ladies! Let’s not let the double standards (that certainly do exist) serve as a distraction or an excuse to ignore the truth (Word of God).
My sistah, woman today, especially young woman are confused and have little to no foundation on which to stand. I am praying for my sistah’s to embrace themselves and not what society has said should define us. God knows us, he made us and is responsible for us to breath right NOW. He is the answer its just that so many of our sistah’s don’t know how to develop a real relationship with him. Join me in lifting up our sistah’s who need true spiritual clarity and loving support.
I so admire your boldness in tackling this issue. I’m 35 years old and for the 15 years that I’ve been a Christian, I have struggled with the guilt that you speak about. All along I struggled in silence, trying to live the celibate life, and I succeeded until I was presented with the temptation and then my desires got the best of me. I used to pray for God to take the desires away, to no avail. I should also mention that in all of these encounters, I was using sex (and my love for it) as a means to gain attention from men. But all this was very difficult to talk about with other Christian women because you get the same, cliche answers every time.
So finally I gave in to the urges and started having sex with my boyfriend. We were both Christians. He really loved me and for the first time I felt sexy, I felt powerful, I felt loved, I felt respected. I must say it was a beautiful thing. I guess that’s why Song of Solomon says “Do not stir up or awaken love until it pleases.”
I think in the church we have a tendency to deny women this feeling when we refuse to embrace our sexuality, especially for singles. A lot of the reasons that we give in church for not having sex I believe are given to control women, and can be misleading. I think if one were bent on making an argument against pre-marital sex, there are more practical arguments to be made. When I was having sex with my boyfriend, I noticed that the sex began to take over and we were no longer connecting on a social and relational level. While I don’t have regrets about that relationship, I would prefer to wait to have sex in my next relationship if for no other reason than to prove to myself that I’m capable of being in a relationship that is not purely physical but has a much stronger relational bond. Also, to prove to myself that I’m worth the wait.
I did a short film a couple years ago about this topic (http://web.me.com/aspeaks/Site/DM.html), and its amazing how people refuse to address the issues at hand, so once again I applaud you. Thanks and I hope to see more dialogue about this in the future.
Just one point of clarification: I do not believe the author is saying that we should just have sex for any reason. In other words, HAVING SEX FOR ATTENTION (and might I add, to boost self-esteem) IS UNHEALTHY regardless of whether you think God approves/disapproves. (It’s also sad many women do not find that church is a safe space for discussing these issues- I’m glad articles like this can finally get the dialogue going).
The desire never goes away. 1 John 2:16 says, “For all that is in the world, the lust of the FLESH, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.” (I capitalized the word “flesh”) But look, it can be hard to resist, for the flesh is very strong, and lust is a powerful force. But the key is not to ask God to take the desire away (’cause this temptation will always be there), but rather to help you deal with it and RESIST temptation. And if you focus on your relationship with God, you won’t even have to worry about a mate. You’ll be so engrossed in Him. Before you know it, you’re ready for a husband.
I am truly sorry for those who feel as if the “church” has incorrectly indoctrinated you and upheld double standards. But not all churches are like that. And you should look to the Bible as the primary (and final) authority and check the church’s teachings against the Bible. That way, you’ll never go wrong.
What’s more, not having sex is not just another rule. In fact, true Christianity (the faith and the relationship, not the religion)is not even really about a bunch of rules. If you’ve been taught that, you’ve been taught wrong. Instead, you build up a relationship with God and see what He likes and disapproves of based off His Word. Then, out of love for Him, you CHOOSE to comply with His standards. If you don’t, then you don’t really love Him (John 14:15 says, “If you love me, keep my commandments”).
Love, love LOVE! guilt and shame are supposed to be synonymous with suffering and sacrifice as a Christian…thats not the God I know…God wouldn’t want us to constantly belittle ourselves, think of ourselves as unworthy of grace and mercy.
Agreed! When we get in touch with real love we will be freed from all these labels we often place on ourselves.
What a great article! I grew up saved a spent my teen years and early 20’s battling the sex demon! Luckily I finally really got to know God AND found a way to integrate my spirituality and sexuality! I created. A course called the Virtuous Vixen Progam and encourage any and all women in this struggle to join us starting Feb 21 and find out how I came to be spirit-filled, sex, & satisfied! http://Www.divamakeover.com/vixen
Always believed that condemnation is not of God but rather of guilt-inducing people that need to relieve themselves of their own guilt.
My dear “sister”. You are unbelievably being decieved! Don’t you know that being friends with the world makes you an enemy of God? Your decision to “unapologectically” have pre-marital sex leads me to believe that you are no longer “saved”. The title of your article should read: “Single, Lost, and Sexin'”.
For the sake of your own soul, pleeaasse get it together!!! The mere fact that you feel no level of conviction about this concerns me. That must mean that God has given you over to a “reprobate mind” (Rom. 1:28) That means that you no longer are able to discern what is right from what is wrong and so you just do whatever you feel.
Pleeaaase take the time to repent NOW – it is not too late to save yourself from hell’s fire!!!
JG:
Did God tell you that he turned the author over to a reprobate mind? Where did you get that from? And where in the Bible did you read that someone can become “no longer saved?” And where in the Bible did you read that pre-marital sex was THE sin that could cause said person to lose salvation?
John 10:27-30 shuts you down: 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
Let’s quote and speak from the Bible, not from the top of our heads. The kind of stuff you’re doing here is why people think Christians (church folk) are so crazy.
I can’t take it!
Being snatched out of the master’s flock and walking out are two totally different things. If this scripture really meant what you are trying to make it out to mean, salvation would simply be a free pass to heaven: you get one and you’re set for life, no matter what you do in the meantime. You can lose your covering by PLACING YOURSELF outside of the will of God. No one forces you to leave, not even God Himself.
That said, if you do not heed God’s Word, then you are not truly listening to His voice, which means you are no longer a sheep (because they listen to His voice). Thus you are no longer in His hand, but you were not snatched out. You strolled out from under His hand.
Amen!
While I am a die heart Christian, I have to disagree with your approach sistah. We can’t beat our sistah’s over the head with threats from God and expect they will some how “get it together.” If you have it together, count it all joy and thank God for it but don’t stand to high on your ladder that you can’t have true compassion and love for a sistah that you say is “deceived.” If you believe that, pray for her, otherwise, it is this damnation attitude that has driven so many of our sistah’s away from the church. BTW – only God decides when it is “too late.” Please try a different approach. Love is always a good option.:-)
AMEN, FOR THE BLOOD OF THE WOMEN THAT YOU ARE DECIEVING AND TURNING THEM AWAY FROM THE INSTRUCTIONS OF GOD ALMIGHTY WITH BE ON YOUR HANDS! GRACE AND MERY HAVE NOW LEFT YOUR PRESENCE! FATHER, I COME TO YOU IN THE AUTHORITY THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN US THROUGH THE BLOOD OF YOUR SON JESUS CHRIST ASKING THAT YOU BREAK THE SPIRIT OF JEZEBEL AND BELIAL THAT IS OPERATING IN THIS WILLING VESSEL TO MISLEAD WOMEN FROM WHAT YOU HAVE SAID IN YOUR WORD. IN THE HOLY NAME OF GOD, I BIND, REBUKE AND ANNUL THE SPRIT OF JEZEBEL AND BELIAL AND CAST IT AWAY FROM THOSE THAT STAND IN AGREEMENT WITH THIS POST. BREAK THE HOLD OF JEZEBEL AND BELIAL, LOOSE THE CAPTIVES AND TURN THEM BACK TO PURITY IN THE NAME OF JESUS, AMEN! “THIS IS WILL OF GOD, EVEN YOU SANCTIFICATION,THAT YE ABSTAIN FROM FORNICATION”(1 THESS 4:3)
I understand the sistah’s sentiments and have often felt this way myself to be honest. However I believe that no matter what everyone else is doing including these so-called christian men who are whoring around, I still must be faithful to God. If they don’t repent God will definitely deal with them. They will have their reward. I will never allow anyone’s actions to cause me to sin!
I have the responsibility of being obedient to God.
Below are two hymns I think express my sentiments. Remember we should not remove the old landmarks.
Am I a soldier of the Cross—
A follower of the Lamb?
And shall I fear to own His cause,
Or blush to speak His name?◦In the name, the precious name,
Of Him who died for me,
Through grace I’ll win the promised crown,
Whate’er my cross may be.
2.Must I be carried to the skies
On flowery beds of ease,
While others fought to win the prize
And sailed through bloody seas?3
.Are there no foes for me to face?
Must I not stem the flood?
Is this vile world a friend to grace,
To help me on to God?
Since I must fight if I would reign,
Increase my courage, Lord!
I’ll bear the toil, endure the pain,
Supported by Thy Word.
Must Jesus bear the cross alone and all the world
go free? No there’s a cross for everyone and there’s a
cross for me.
If I never get married. I still have to be obedient to God. Disobedience profits nothing.
Source: http://www.hymnal.net/hymn.php/h/468#ixzz1D7pohOZxeryone
Wow! Just…wow!
First, I think you are a gifted writer. Yet, as a fellow sister in Christ and born-again believer, what you write about in this post grieves me to no end.
Your bottom line seems to be that you are free to fornicate. This is a LIE. While you have the ability and freedom of will to choose to do that, to believe and promote the notion (whether privately or publicly) that celibacy is something that is archaic and oppressive and designed to control women is just plain wrong and poisonous to the Body of Christ. God designed sex to be within the confines of a marital union, partly as an expression of His intimacy with His Body, the Church (born-again believers). There are other reasons that He designed the sexual union as well (pleasure in the marriage relationship, procreation in the marriage relationship).
I have been a born-again Christian for 16 years, having been saved at age 23. I did not marry until I was 35. This means I had several long years of singleness, trying to remain sexually pure (i.e. celibate). I failed at this significantly for various reasons–all of which were based in my refusal to deny myself in a particular moment. While my desire for love and connection were good and God-given, my response to that and my attempt to meet my needs on my own terms (playing “god”, much like Adam and Eve in the garden), I faced the consequences of that. One of those consequences was guilt.
Yes, I felt guilt like you used to as well. You allude to your source of guilt being the “conservative Christian” belief that sex outside of marriage is wrong. That “conservative” belief is based on the Bible, which says that it IS wrong (i.e. sin). The guilt is, at a basic level, from the Holy Spirit. Part of His ministry is to convict us of sin (John 16:8). Therefore, in choosing to do what you want to do “unapologetically”, you are making a choice–perhaps in an effort to rid yourself of this guilt–to ignore this conviction and helping others to justify their choices to sin as well.
If you were someone who does NOT say they a born-again believer, this could just be another article with which I disagree. However, you ARE a believer and, sister to sister in the faith, I must speak the truth. You are promoting things that are contrary to what the Bible teaches, thus bringing reproach to the God who wrote the Bible. My sister, this should not be so.
While I understand what you are saying–and can identify with much of how you’ve felt/thought–I can unequivocally and unapologetically respond in this manner. It is a LIE. Fornication is sin. Giving into fornication will NOT bring you a husband or an ultimately satisfying union–regardless of what you believe currently.
The reality is that some of us will NEVER be married, which is unfortunate. However, this does not entitle us to fornicate because it is too difficult to deny ourselves. Christ denied Himself when He came in the flesh. That is what the Christian life is about–BY THE POWER OF GOD’S SPIRIT within those of us who are believers, denying the lusts of our flesh for the sake of righteousness. Is that ridiculously difficult and seemingly unattainable? Yup! But that’s exactly why He sent the Holy Spirit…to help us live this life (and that we do by faith). Yes, our sins are covered under the Blood of Christ, but that doesn’t mean we just tap-dance on grace and live like we want.
Trust me, I’m NOT coming at you as if I’ve arrived or something. I definitely hear you. I’m married now and enjoying the full expression of my sexuality with my husband, but those single years were difficult at times in regard to trying to remain pure. Many times I failed miserably. I even tried to do what you’re doing, which lasted for only a few months. I thank God for the conviction that drew me back to Him whole-heartedly.
Read the Word and believe it, sis. For real. Please stop promoting this lie because it is anti-Christian, anti-biblical, and anti-God.
Matthew 16:24 AMP – “Then Jesus said to His disciples, If anyone desires to be My disciple, let him deny himself [disregard, lose sight of, and forget himself and his own interests] and take up his cross and follow Me [cleave steadfastly to Me, conform wholly to My example in living and, if need be, in dying, also].”
AMEN to what she said!
Now that was powerful…God’s word is unchanging and we can’t as Christians continue to mock God. The world is watching. If we are weak in an area then we need to call on the Saints and pray one for another. However, trying to change God is not the answer…God wants to change us. He is the head and we are to follow after Him not the other way around.
PREACH that Matthew 16:24!!!
I gotta speak to the emptyness and loneliness that is the real issue in this article. It’s not about what the church is preaching or any double standards or guilt etc. It comes down to unbelief in the one who made you. It seems your conclusion is God is not enough and he can’t keep you. God did not create you for the sole purpose of being with a man (and having sex) You were created just for Him. (forgive me on this feminist website for the masculine use of “Him” when referencing God-we know that God is Spirit-neither male or female.) We were created for HIS PLEASURE. (Revelations 4:11) Now for us, if we want pleasure, it can be found in Him. (psalm 16:11)
To be blunt-God doesn’t owe you (or me) anything! He’s given us his best-His Son-from whom eternal life springs. So if I get shot up tomorrow or assaulted (God forbid) Those things don’t compare to -not just heaven, but who I get to be with in heaven! Crazy right?
So how does this help today? Psalm 73 explains how it seems everybody in this world is doing what they want and getting what they want-but the psalmist woke up and said I was a fool when I thought like this! He reflected on God’s principals and said “they’re on a slippery slope”. I see now that they won’t get away with this! God even said in Psalm 50:21-22 -When I kept silent, you thought I was all together like you-I will set the charges before you now.” My beautiful sister, Matthew 7:13-15 says the right way is narrow and the Broad ways is easy and wide-that’s exactly why people choose that way of life because it’s easier. A one on one relationship with the Lord is deeper than just coming to the alter and saying I want you in my life-It’s a spiritual consummation, an intimacy-a back and forth-personal fellowship-that’s built through time on your knees with Him. He loves you. He wants you to know that He alone is your portion-The pectoral muscles and the sweat on your man’s chest will get old-you will be empty again, and Jesus will be there waiting. I love you.
@ Cherry – amen, sis!
Love this!
I admire your bravery with writing this and I DEFINITELY relate to where you’re coming from. More conversations like this need to be had but so often aren’t. I will do my part and post this elsewhere because this is an important topic that needs to be talked about. Thank you for writing this!
This grieves my heart so much I couldn’t even get through it all. But how I feel makes no difference, as Christians, what should matter to us is how God feels. The clearest way to understand how God feels is to read the Word He left for us, which you did not quote at all to come to your conclusions. There is a reason for that. Besides that point, here are some questions that might be helpful for you to ponder as you figure out what God’s will is for your life.
1) What does it mean to be saved? You say you are “saved,” but then you say reading the Bible there “aint no good news in it.” That leads me to believe that you can’t possibly understand what Christ did just for you. How He sacrificed His life just for you and what that entails. Ask yourself, what does being “saved” mean to you? Christ was beaten, bruised, and brutally murdered so that we can be saved from the consequences of sin, which is death (Romans 6:23 “for the wages of sin is death, but the Gift of God is eternal life). ETERNAL LIFE! That should be enough good news in and of itself! But that is only the beginning!! Christ has saved us from being SLAVES to sin. Meaning we no longer have to sin because “we can’t help it,” or “it’s too hard.” Romans 6:1 “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?” What you are bragging about in this post, sis, is your dedication to living in sin, because God’s grace is going to cover you. But Christ has freed us from the bondage and death of sin!
2) Who is your master? Romans 6:16:Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and having been set free from sin, have become slaves to righteousness.” These scriptures clearly show that we are going to be slaves to someone. Our will is never our own, though we think we’ve got everything under control. We’re either going to submit to God, or submit to sin. You say Christ is your savior — but is He your LORD? The word “savior” is used to describe Jesus 24 times in the New Testament. The word “Lord” is used 747 times. There is a reason for this: you only need to be saved ONCE. What happens next is the understanding that Christ needs to become our master, that our lives need to reflect that Christ has saved us. That makes us different, and set apart. How are you going to minister to the world as Christ commands us to do in Matthew 28:20 if you are HAPPILY living in sin? He didnt save you so you can do what you like, He saved you so you can FOLLOW Him and have life more abundantly than any EMPTY sex can give you (because that’s what sex outside of God’s embrace is, EMPTY!). Luke 6:46-48, Christ says “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,” and do not do what I say?!” John 14:15: “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.” PERIOD!
3) Where is your counsel coming from? Your declaration that you are “unapologetically” having pre-marital sex is the manifestation of your submission to sin. Sex is your master, and I have to agree with the sister above that when you can sin and have no apology for it, no shame at all, God has turned you over to a reprobate mind, because that is truly the absence of the Holy Spirit who should be convicting you when you do wrong. Where are the Christian leaders in your life? What do they have to say about this? Do you have any? This is why it is so important that God says in Hebrews 10:25 “forsake not the assembling together of Christians, so you can encourage each other, and all the more preparing for the Day that draws near.” You need a Christian circle of leaders, sisters, and brothers who will keep you accountable to the word of God. THat’s why the Bible says in Proverbs 24:5-6 “For by wise guidance you will wage war, And in abundance of counselors there is victory.” You are not receiving wise counsel. You are being deceived, sis. God forgives our sins when we REPENT. Repenting means to acknowledge your sin and TURN from it. It doesn’t allow you to be “unapologetic”! You are not being forgiven because you are not asking for forgiveness! You are not repenting and you are missing out on what God has for your life as you continue unashamed in sin.
4)How hard is “too hard”? You mention that it is “hard to take the Bible as the Gospel truth.” Sis, what?! As Paul says, if Christ didn’t die, we are wasting our times. Why do you claim Christ if you do not believe His word is “the gospel truth”? Yes it’s hard not to have sex as a single Christian, but let’s talk about “hard” for a second. Let’s talk about God sending His only Son to earth to die for us. Christ KNEW He was going to be betrayed by his closest friend, badly beaten, tortured, and murdered for doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG. He knew this in advance. Do you think that was easy for Him to do? Even as He was completely God, He was also completely man and would feel the emotional and physical pain He would endure. The night in which He was betrayed He cried out to God, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.” YET NOT AS I WILL, BUT AS YOU WILL. We have all suffered wrongs in our lives, we’ve all been hurt before, but the bottom line is that WE SIN EVERYDAY, we hurt God everyday, and He doesn’t have any degrees of sin. Romans 6:23 THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH. ALL SIN. No qualifications. Every single day we live on earth is a blessing and a gift from God because we deserve death EVERY SINGLE DAY. So when bad things happen to us, we can trace that to something we’ve done that shows somewhere in our lives we deserved that wrong. But Christ died doing nothing wrong. Do you think that was easy? John 13:16 says “I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.” Christ is our master. Do you think that if He suffered, we are too good to suffer? If He faced trials and tribulations, we are too good to face trials and tribulations? It is a ridiculous thought! And you’re saying what, now? Your need to creatively express your sexual selfhood is too strong to be overcome? It’s too hard for you to do?! Keep Christ’s sacrifice in mind as you ponder what God has called for you to do with your life.
It’s not about you, boo! It’s not about your wants, needs, or desires. I am praying for you, sis! I am praying God pricks your heart and changes it to reflect Christ’s heart. The ruling desire of Christ’s heart was to do God’s will. That’s all He wanted. When the ruling desire of your heart is to do the will of God, then, my sister, you are a Christian. Until then, you are lost in sin.
I am praying for you, and I would love to be a part of your spiritual circle of accountability. I love you, my sister, and I will pray with you, if you so desire.
diva@dcdistrictdiva.com
Amen DC Distric Diva.
@dcdistrictdiva – Amen!
Dito! thank you for writing this! you have made it very plan Ms. Diva
i’m confused about why you think someone should take seriously the tome you’ve written when you begin by telling us that the initial post “grieved” your heart so much that you didn’t read it all…
what i find odd and hilarious is the fact that conservative christians quote the bible in order to say that the bible is right. it’s hilariously circular logic.
but the folks you quote – like Paul, for example – didn’t quote scripture in order to support scripture. he was an observer of culture. he was not bound to the letter of the law.
and you’re hella dismissive. “it’s not about you, boo!” but then you focus all of your scriptures upon how the individual – the *you* – is supposed to behave as a singular individual. you contradict yourself. just like various scriptures do.
*shrug*
No one has to take seriously what *I* say. But God’s word never returns to Him void, and He will do just what He says. In due time, my brother, you will see that.
I’ll be a bit more clear for you, in case you do not understand Christianity. As I explained above, Christ came to this earth to fulfill GODS plan. He admitted that He was anticipating the coming pain, and if there was any other way to save God’s people, then “let this cup pass from me.” But He ultimately said, “But not my will, but YOUR will be done.” THATS what “It’s not about you, boo!” means. Our lives are NOT are own. If you’re in CHRIST, you’re IN CHRIST. That means you follow Him. If you’re out, you’re OUT. Period. How can we claim to be “Christian,” yet don’t want to do what Christ did? He submitted His own will to the will of God. He submitted His own pleasure to the pleasure of God. THAT is what a Christian is. This depraved woman who wrote this post should stop calling herself a “Christian” because she has no clue what that means and she is deceiving others. She should call herself a “CrunkFeminist” or whatever her real name is, because she is her own god, and she makes her own rules. And she will live with her own consequences, as will all of us who choose to deny the sovereignty of Christ and His will.
Hey!
Isn’t everyone here forgetting about one key piece of scripture?
Matthew 7: 1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged.”
(I’m just sayin) :p
Yes, some are judging. But it seems that many are not. Reproving someone is not the same as judging.
Hi all. Thanks again for your impassioned commentary. I want to respond in brief and in summary manner to many of the concerns that have been raised, and I hope the conversation can continue.
First, I prayed about this post for many months, and shared it with fellow Christians, preachers, and friends, and religious scholars before posting. I am very clear about the potential of this post to be a “stumbling block” to some believers. At the same time, I think we often trot out the stumbling block argument as a way to foreclose various conversations that should happen in the body of believers.
Second, while an earlier version of this post did include bible verses, I ultimately decided that I didn’t want to misrepresent scripture, or attempt as I said in the original post, to force a loophole where none exists. Furthermore, the levels of engagement with scripture in much of the commentary illustrate the ways in which scripture can absolutely be taken out of context to support one’s point of view. So I notice that many of you quote from Romans 6, without any substantive engagement with Romans 7 or 8 (esp. 8:1 — there is therefore no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus). For those of you who call my salvation into question, such questioning is not even sound based upon your own conservative theological hermeneutic in which salvation is not based on works but faith. In other words, if you think I can DO something to lose my salvation, that means you think I can do something to gain it, and Paul’s discussion in Ephesians 2:8-10 suggests otherwise, along with Romans 10: 9-10, etc. So let’s just agree that we disagree about theological interpretation and hermeneutics, but not that you have the right to declare my soul in jeopardy. My profession of faith in Christ has already settled that.
Third, I think we can have a conversation about the relationship of sexuality to spirituality, and how we as Black women and women in general negotiate those conversations when we live a context very different from the Bible. And I think we have to be honest about the fact that our experiences matter, and that they tell us something about how to engage the world. I think it is dangerous to keep telling Black women to deny the reality of their loneliness, aloneness, and sexual desire based on the fear that they will displease God. When we engage in rhetoric like that, our religious despotism and zealotry has become a tool of control and domination rather than a source of liberation. In fact, many of the posts above strike me as being nothing short of Pharasaic in their zeal.
Finally, I think we have to have sexual ethics that allow us to live and thrive in the moment in which we find ourselves, and I take issue with anyone using religious jargon to silence women into submission (which has been done for centuries, especially to black women) around their sexuality. So I’m especially thankful for the sisters in this post, who have the courage to ask tough questions and imagine other possibilities for themselves, without the fear of an angry wrathful God nipping at their heels.
You, my dear sister, are totally deceived. Repent now, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
I have a lot of personal issues and pet peeves with many of today’s churches and one of them is something you’ve mentioned… that important topics like this are not more openly discussed, especially when so many saints are struggling with these topics.
I guess one thought that immediately jumps into my head after reading your most recent response is that Paul said it is better to marry than to burn. It would seem like he would have said something a little different, like, it is better to have extramarital sex than to burn, if it was indeed something permissible in God’s eyes. Just a thought.
Your article provokes discussion and critical thought, which I think is good. But it’s still very shocking to hear someone professing to have a close personal relationship with the Lord make this type of stance or decision when the Bible says so clearly to flee sexual immorality, so you gotta understand the passion in people’s responses to your article. You see, for most Christians, including myself, it’s an oxymoron and it’s extremely difficult to reconcile those two things (i.e., a Christian… who engages in guilt-free extra-marital sex), especially when there is so much proven wisdom in waiting until marriage for sex with an exclusive partner.
In fact, a lot of Christian women have testimonies who made the same decision you have and they inevitably re-decided that their heavenly “Father knows best” and then chose (again) to wait before forming any further soul ties. What made them change their minds or their heats about the matter? I believe it was the conviction of the Holy Spirit, what you might be calling “guilt.” You see, these women struggled to be celibate, but they struggled MORE to just have sex freely because a Christian isn’t happy when sinning. Christians are not sinless, we just sin less, but it doesn’t mean we are happy to be doing it. But of course your argument is that extramarital sex is not a sin.
In general, I think your perspective doesn’t differ from the world’s perspective on this topic. I see no distinction. That’s my personal opinion to which I’m entitled, but as another sista pointed out, what is utmost in this discussion is God’s perspective. And His Word is pretty clear on sexual immorality, no matter how you exegete it, slice or dice it. It is my experience and belief that Christians sometimes go through a period of sin-sanity (insanity), somewhat like a mid-life crisis. At least, I’ve witnessed that happen to someone very close to me who experienced a season like this for 1-2 years. People questioned this person’s salvation as the person engaged in extramarital sex, unapologetically (to use your word). This person was “resolved” to not abide by any rules whatsoever, no matter how Christians prayed, encouraged, and even engaged in interventions. But two years later, the person deeply repented and is in a right frame of mind again. It was wild during that person’s season of “sin-sanity” because some Christians were bold enough to declare this person was never saved to begin with or not genuinely a Christian to deviate so far from the straight and narrow. But I extremely close to the person and knew this was not the case at all.
Even though I take exception with your conclusion and resolve to have unapologetic extramarital sex, I appreciate the discussions your article has sparked. As earlier stated, I think this topic is an important one to have in the church, and with all of today’s technology, blogs make it possible to conduct some of these forums of open, honest discussion. So thanks for such a well-written candid authentic exposition. (You really have a talent and gift with writing.)
And since you are writing anonymously I hope you don’t mind answering a few personal questions for me when you have a chance. I’m more curious than anything and partly playing devil’s advocate.
Does your sexin’ happen with an exclusive partner, or do you have casual sex with different people?
Are your sexual partners also saved?
And do you desire to be married someday?
Lastly, do you believe extramarital sex is okay for married people, the same you believe it is okay for single people?
What about a case where the husband becomes chronically impotent, should the wife be permitted to get to sexin’ with other men to fulfill her desires, with God’s approval?
Hi June,
Thanks for your reply. Even though I know you disagree with me on this issue, I truly appreciate the stark difference in your tone from many of the other respondents, which is why I am responding to you. First and foremost, what I am not advocating in my post is that sistas go out and begin having indiscriminate, unhealthy sexual encounters with multiple partners. I don’t knock other women’s sexual practices, since I’m protective of my own, but for me, casual sex is not the best emotional or physical health option, at least not as a regular practice. I believe that sex comes with a huge amount of responsibility, emotional, spiritual, and physical, which is why I haven’t engaged it haphazardly or with lots of people. What I am advocating is that sisters be intentional and honest in having a conversation about their sexuality. Since you are in church, you know the numbers of single Christian Black women are growing, not decreasing.
What I am concerned about as a person who is also in church is that because of the ways we read and understand the Bible, we literally do not have a theological apparatus for talking about how social forces like overincarceration and underemployment of Black men, and cultural issues around interracial dating (which I actually don’t think is the panacea for the problem) are affecting our options for partnering. Anytime we begin to talk about these questions, we start talking about sin and not being worldly or deceived by the enemy. I get it. I know the scriptures well. But at the heart of a lot of the anger (passion you called it I think) is fear. Fear that if we begin to honestly talk about and acknowledge our sexual needs and desires as grown women (and I am talking about adults who can take responsibility for themselves, not young people who are not in an emotional or economic position to deal with the consequences of sex) that we will displease and fall out of favor with God. What if we begin to admit that the whole Jesus-is-my-husband meme is not especially fulfilling. Is it really true that “perfect love casts out fear”? If it is, then we should at least begin to ask the questions, without fear of divine retribution, even if the conclusions folks come to are different from my own. And they very well may be. And I respect that. I fully acknowledge that sex is not the answer to loneliness, emotional issues, etc. It may exacerbate them. But I also acknowledge that sexuality is a healthy part of every person’s life, and what we tell people in church (my experience) is “sex is good. God created it. Now suppress every mention of it, until you find a husband.” Huh? I know all the scriptures that come to mind to justify the suppression, but psychology, medicine, and common sense tell us that sexual expression is healthy, and if it is, surely decades of sexual repression can’t be healthy. When we consider the health concerns of Black women, we need to be talking about mind/body/spirit integration, not making enemies of our flesh, and using religion as an excuse to not grapple with real human issues. And if it’s Jesus who we’re following, He often raised critical questions about whether we were using scriptural laws and rules to foreclose our healing and our freedom (think about those discussions of healing on the sabbath) rather than to facilitate them. I wonder sometimes if that’s what we’re doing with all the scriptures on sex…focusing on the rules rather than the principle, focusing on the letter of the law, rather than the spirit of the law (which as some your commenters on your blog indicate, is about emotional health and well-being rather than restriction). And my Bible says, “the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.”
Your question about marriage is an interesting and important one. I am ambivalent about marriage, largely because I have a fulfilling career, am not interested too much in motherhood, and like lots of solitude and personal space. I have also found that most deeply Christian men are very conservative about gender roles, which I am not; I’m not willing to budge on this fact. As a side note, I have also chosen not to marry other men who I related to emotionally and intellectually, but who were not Christian, because I think there should be congruence in values. If I find a partner who is interested in partnership rather than headship, I will consider marriage. Otherwise, no. But I think your question raises a larger point about women who don’t want to get married, precisely for these or for other reasons, but who have normal, natural sex drives. In the Bible, marriage was really the only option for a woman in order for her to be economically and socially provided for, especially in the days where women were property. So lots of marriage laws, especially those in the Old Testament, were designed to protect women’s virtue and value AS property, rather than as people. And we have extracted those principles in contexts where they don’t exactly apply today.
And no, I don’t think adultery is okay; if you’ve made a commitment to one person, you should honor that commitment, be it in marriage or with a significant other.
Thanks again for reading and for your thoughtful and sincere approach to the dialogue.
Crunkashell
really quickly
paul had bad theology of the second coming. paul’s injunction about marriage – and it was certainly an injunction – was because he thought that Christ’s second coming would occur *IN HIS LIFETIME*…
he encouraged the christians to remain single as himself because he wanted all energies to be directed toward waiting for the fulfillment of that second coming. he said that marriage was better than burning, certainly. but he was plain wrong about a theological imperative.
so yeah. maybe take Paul’s words about marriage with regard to his pretty much negative attitude about sex and sexuality for *all* people in the biblical record…
I just want to say thanks for writing this. It’s awesome. You’re awesome. This in particular is amazing: “Sex is a form of creative power. And it is in the literal fact of its creative aspects that we feel alive, fully human, and connected. I think God wants nothing less than this for us, and that requires regular, intimate connections of bodies, or at the very least a very regular, intentional and unapologetic intimate connection with our own body.”
I can only speak from my own experience, which is as a queer femme white woman who is an ordained minister of the Gospel. I’d like to add one thing: I had a period of sleeping with quite a few people in my twenties, after being in an abusive relationship that included sexual assault in when I was 19-20. And the typical story about this is “oh I was so damaged and I was acting out.” No. I was claiming power. I was figuring out what felt good. I was finding out that I could say no. I was learning to communicate. It was some of the hardest, holiest, healing-est work of my life, and wherever there is healing, wherever there is salvation, there is Christ.
Your theological and exegetical points above are spot-on, about grace and faith and wholeness. I might also add, to the kind of out-of-control Scripture abuse up there that Song of Songs is an entire book (in the Bible!) about two unmarried people having ridiculously hot sex. Without shame or apology. I also just think about the fact that Jesus wasn’t really interested in people’s sex lives. Paul was. He was obsessed. But Paul wasn’t and will never be the Messiah. Jesus partied, hung out with the outspoken women, went to the fringes of society, not to where people were making 100 million puritanical rules about who’s in and who’s out according to what they thought other people should do with their bodies (remember who did that? Pharisees.). Argh, end rant.
Again, thank you for writing this. God’s peace be with you.
Thnk you honeyandlocusts!!! Your second paragraph describes a space in my life as well. I get really angry when stories of perceived promiscuity are shaped as “acting out.” Sexual negotiation is hard work, but I had to learn how to do it to claim power that I felt had been stolen. Thank you!
Honeyandlocusts, this comment did my soul good. Thank you much. I’m re-reading Song of Solomon beginning today…
Many young women, believers and non-believers will read this article and be detrimentally affected. I hope the person who wrote this article will one day understand what it truly means to be born again.
She is leading people down the path of destruction as well as herself. God’s Word never comes back to Him void. He says what He means and means what He says. Revelation 21 informs us that sexually immoral will have their part in the lake of fire along with other named unrepentant sinners. 1 Corinthians 5 warns us that sexual immorality defiles the church; chapter 6 clearly admonishes us to flee sexual immorality. God’s Word states that those who are perishing are being blinded by satan and this woman being led astray.
But the saddest part is that she is a pawn in satan’s schemes and leading others down the same path. My prayer is that she repent and turn away from her sin AND truly submit to the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior and LORD of her life. Only then will she understand that Jesus Christ is our EXCEEDINGLY GREAT REWARD.
Preach on dear crunkashell (how aptly named given the fire and brimstone being flung your way)!!!
Testify and live your truth!
I wonder why there is never this much energy directed at the true evils of this world, capitalism, classism, racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, transphobia, ableism, nationalism… I mean I could go on…
The truth we need to live is God’s truth…
AMEN Sister….. JUST AMEN
For a “Preacher’s Kid” & a devout “Decon & Deconess” niece this hit home. I love this article! I’ve had times when I’ve had sex & in the back of my mind after all the fun is over, Im beating myself up inside saying “Im going to hell for this.” I guess at this point in my life I will be “Single, Saved & Sexin”
Thank you!
When you are sexing does God get the glory? In your sexing position should God hold that last breath will he say to you “well done”? If God is all that why can’t he keep your sexualty, sexing until such time for marriage if that is in his plan for you? When you are “in love” with God why the guilt, why the desire to be with another, can he not satisfy your desires? Is he really your everything, your all and all? I trust Satain has not taken another opportunity to take Gods great creation and use it against you. Be very sure, the way seem right but the end is destruction.
Love you much.
Ljonesl, how can you say all that and end with “Love you much”?!?
every time we profess to be believers in Christ & then turn around and act as if, or blatantly say, that God is okay with our sin, we lie. we lie about who Christ is, why He came to earth, and what the Gospel is. something that says believers can continue in blatant rebellion against God is “another gospel,” indeed.
we also call Him a liar. we say that what He says in His own word is not true. that He didn’t mean the standards for purity that He set forth–not even a HINT of sexual immorality. (ephesians 5:3)
we say that God is wrong about how He designed sex to work. that we want His gift (& sex is a beautiful gift), but not Him. or His will for it.
Jesus came to set us free from sin, not “performance-based living.” although that phrase sounds like truth (salvation by faith, not works) it’s a misrepresentation not all that different from the “you shall not SURELY die” lie the enemy fed us in the first place.
obedience to God’s commands comes from a place of love for those who have been extended His grace through the Gospel of Christ Jesus. we don’t do these things in order to get Him to love us, but rather because His love for us changes us.
we are so humbled by the undeserved grace (oxymoronic, i know) He poured out on us on the cross, that we desire to turn from the sin that put Him there in the first place.
that is the response of true belief. so i don’t think people are saying that you have lost your salvation. (according to the scriptures, i don’t believe that’s possible) but rather that your actions MAY reveal that you were never saved to begin with.
please believe that this truth & people pleading with you in these comments is coming from a place of love, not condemnation.
God bless you for standing up and representing Christ through the TRUTH of His Word.
I would like to say everything she just said exactly how she said it. thank u SweetT
Absolutely….
Sistah nothing you have said has any scriptual basis. You my friend are misinterpreting scripture to meet your own needs. People do it all the time. You need to leave God and the bible out of this, and just say that you are tired of waiting on God for a mate and are going to be disobedient and take it into your own hands to have your needs met.
Also I’m not saying that you’ve lost your salavation, but your salvation is questionable. Shall we contnue to sin that grace may abound? If you love me, you will keep my commandments…. I’m just saying.
How you feel is not deep, I’m 34 and never thought I’d still be single, but this is par for the course. There are people around the world being persecuting for the cross; loosing their lives. They would love for their only issue to be that they don’t have a man.
We in America need to grow up and realize that Christianity is a hard walk of sacrifice and surrender and what you my sistah are growing through is no different than what the rest of us single women are enduring. I don’t know about you, but I want to be faithful to God to hear him say well done. Do I want sex, yes! Do I want a man yes! But if God decides that this is something that I will not partake in, I may not like it, but I’m not going to jump ship. No man who puts his hand to the plough and turns back is worthy of me (GOD). Read Hebrews where it talks about saints who were thrown to the lions and wandered around like nomads, all for the sake of the cross. The world was not worthy of them. I know how you feel, but whenever you go out of the kingdom of God to get your needs met, you are in direct disobedience to God!
Joy, I agree with you. Thank you for standing up and representing Christ in TRUTH.
AMEN!
I’m going to try to keep this simple. Because I know that my thoughts on this topic could go on for days.
I have no interest in trying to change the author’s position, but man…do I ever wish I had read this a decade ago. I was a woman that was in a committed relationship and living with that man. When I was 23 years old, I went to church a couple of times, decided that all sex needed to cease and that he needed to move out. The relationship ended not long after (I saw later that my approach was all wrong) and I remained celibate until I got married 6 years later.
I never planned to go that long without being “found.” I was a great catch, I thought. Young, attractive, homeowner, great job, SAVED. So why weren’t any of the single men in my church noticing? Years went by. I waited some more.
Bottom line: I regret that. I did everything that I thought God required of me. I did it, as people in my church would say, “the right way.” I withheld until my wedding night with the man that I eventually met outside of my church. Sex remains a difficult hurdle for me. Everything I fought to turn off for those 6 years, I am still fighting to turn back on almost 5 years later. When my first child was born with a disability, I was done. That’s what strict obedience to the Word got me.
So. Do you. Whatever you feel you can live with is of no concern to me. I made my own choices when it was my time and, well, I just wouldn’t be honest if I told you it was the best decision I ever made.
Thank you for this candid and thoughtful comment. I appreciate your honesty, and I wish you strength for the journey, Sis.
Wow.
I would love to dialogue with you more about your conclusions. In all sincerity, I feel your pain and I hope that this message is a part of our discussion. What are the possible after-effects of fighting hard for repression.
Be blessed, remain in Hope.
Crittle, I will definitely keep you in my thoughts and prayers that God be with you through every up and down!
To everyone else: That is the ugly truth about celibacy…no one talks about the women who remain SUCCESSFULLY celibate for YEARS only to find themselves within a marriage or a loving committed relationship trying to get back what they so successfully repressed. Not everyone flips back in forth in angst over not being able to resist the temptation of pre-marital sex. Some of us pray to God for the desire to have sex to go away and it DOES, so much so that it’s a struggle to get it back. After spending so many years thinking negatively about all things sexual- do you think that magically disappears the day you walk down the aisle? The transition from years of abstaining to all of the sudden actively engaging in intercourse on a regular basis is not easy. From my personal experiences, I suspect that if I were to start a support group for women recovering from years of celibacy tomorrow the demand for a seat would be so high that I wouldn’t be able to accomodate everyone.
I am not advocating for an “anything goes” approach to pre-marital sex, but I am asking that women humble themselves and begin an earnest reading of diverse opinions about sexuality, God, & Marriage so that you can be informed. You may be surprised to find out how deep your relationship with Christ will go when begin a critical engagement (i.e. questioning & reading for context) with God’s word.
WOW. I did not know all of this was going on over here. Crunkashell, your reply is amazing and I can’t add much to it. I think your initial post was on point and the reactions to it are telling. I think it is an easier faithwalk to worry over the things we can control via self-deinal, rather than ask the big questions about God and the human condition. It is easier to be celibate than to negotiate sexcual relationships. And finally, it is easier to be literal about a text (especially when men have taught you how for years) than it is to admit that any sign (word, picture, text…) has infinitely interpretable and therefore can never have one truth. I hope that you, and every person who so passionately responds, have/ has found a way to walk comfortably in your owm truth. That is true peace.
I have to give a huge hug to the author of this post. You are so brave. I imagine this was not easy for you and I can tell by the tone of your piece that you put a lot of time, effort and prayer in it. When I first read it, I had to take a walk. That was how powerful it was. I appreciated the lack of scripture. Some people tend to think that just throwing scripture between two people is a conversation. Aside from the pride your Sunday School teacher, pastor, mama, daddy etc may feel that you know your verses, that is not a conversation.
This is a very sensitive topic especially for black women. we are as they say the backbone of the church or as Zora Neal Hurston said “mule of de world”. But you know even a mule has a right to enjoy a cool drink of water and chew on some sweet grass.
As a few posters pointed out, celibacy does not guarantee a husband. However if after you have been obedient and faithful you do find a mate, there is no blessed assurance that it will be a spiritually, sexually or emotionally satisfying one. You can if fact have empty sex with your spouse. Yes even if you are equally yoked, churched up, prayed up anointed with oil folk. It happens all the time to deacons, deaconesses, missionaries, ushers, preachers, Sunday school teachers who ever. And when this happens they pray on it, fast, go to the Pastor genuinely confused because they did it right. They did hear and listen God, prayed and sacrificed. And rejoiced when God provided them with a mate. But they still struggle. Two people in Christ can come together in holy matrimony. They do it all the time. But how each are interpreting the work is what they base their actions on. There are many ways to look and apply the word.
The author brought up a very salient point regarding the hypocrisy surrounding asking women to stay on their knees, steady and patient, keeping their own counsel and her eyes on her own actions, men seem to enjoy a much more pliable form of grace. While growing up it felt like anytime a man stepped into the sanctuary there was confetti and balloons that dropped from the heavens. I would see how the preacher would perk up and get a little excited (not in an Eddie Long kind of way). They were pleased to see the women but a black man, a black man that could be welcomed back into the flock so that he could take his rightful place as the priest of his house? HMPH
Now some say we should not be concerned with the whoring around that some men do. I disagree. First I object to that term. The people who are having sex with these men (male and female) are not whores. THey are children of God just like everybody else. Secondly it just continues to be undue and unjust pressure on black girls and women to be the keepers of God’s house. Thirdly it keeps all of God’s children from engaging in a much needed discussion about sex and sexuality. We al know how reticent the church continues to be in refernce to sexual matters. It manifests itself everday in STD’s, unintended pregnancies, lack of access to sexual healthcare, misguided marriages and just a big blind spot when it comes to emotional health. Hypocrisy breeds resentment, resentment anger. And that gets it the way of your own and others spiritual growth.
Sex is a gift. Grace is a gift. Both are gifts from God. It is God’s grace for a teenager who had no choice in her initiation into sexual matters, to be able to choose with a clear eye who she wanted to be with sexually. It is God’s grace to be able to be in that moment, not to have a flashback, or feel shame. It was God’s grace that brought to me wonderful, sweet, loving, patient black boys and girls who tenderly explored me as I explored them. It was God’s grace that allowed me to be discerning. To know not to have relations in anger, fear or out of spite. It was God’s grace that brought my husband to me. We have been married for over 10 years and have shared tenderly in each others sorrows and joys. It is finally God’s grace that allows me to have an open and honest relationship with my own girls, to talk to them about sexuality, their own and other peoples. I don’t want them to live in fear and reproach or to make choices based on it either.
God made everyone unique. he made me stubborn, intelligent, funny, inquisitive, beautiful and yes sexual. I claim it all. In the name of Jesus.
“I refuse any longer to live a fear-driven life, based upon a set of rules that mete out punishment and reward based on how well I perform. I think Jesus came to free us from performance driven living. As women, we are no stranger to performance driven lives, which often leave us empty and unfulfilled as we try to be all things to all people.”
Crunkashell THIS IS POWERFUL STUFF! It takes bravery to speak your truth but it also takes faith to be vulnerable and put yourself forward in way that your gift may be abused, misunderstood and dismissed. I am thankful for both your sense of bravery and faith in offering this post and engaging in both its support and critique so thoughtfully.
I also think its important to point out that so many folks are reading this post and are speaking passionately about how they can relate. It is not that one or two people are not “strong” enough to endure the will and rule God. Rather, we have situation where people are living unfulfilled and unhappy lives. And, yet that means nothing apparently if we can still say that those lives are faithful. I call that a failure not a success. People of any faith or belief need real guidance and support and most of all, honesty and you have offered that here so thank you!
This is a GREAT DELUSION and dangerous to accept as TRUTH to living as an authentic child of God. God will not be mocked!In order to deal with this issue properly we need to start by exposing the lie; such as this article and excuses Satan uses to deceive people in this area. This is imperative because once we believe one of his lies, we have taken the first step on a path that will lead to heartbreak and regret Sexual purity is not an option for an obedient Christian, it’s a requirement. God’s will is centered on our character and moral purity much more than on our circumstances, such as job, housing and schooling. You want to know God’s will? You don’t have to wonder. Here it is:
1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.
Romans 13:13-14 – 13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature.
There is no sense seeking God’s will in other areas when you are choosing to live in sexual impurity in your mind or body. For the will of God is this:
1 Thessalonians 4:3-5 ESV
For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God;
2 Timothy 2:22 – Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
1 Peter 2:11 – Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul.
Galatians 5:16-21 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
wow, great post.. While I know a large number of women who are “saved” and “sexin'” who won’t openly admit it, its dope to see someone just come out with it.
Kudos on you
and yes, MASTURBATION needs to be on the table.
Yes, many will agree but what good does it do when GOD has said that this is NOT His way. Much has been said and spoken but I’m glad I read this article. Why? Because now I know how to minister in greater ways to those that will believe THIS lie to be the gospel. I am grateful for those that have taken a stand to say NO, this is NOT God’s way, and I join them in saying that HOLINESS IS STILL RIGHT! You can be SAVED, SANCTIFIED, AND SINGLE…DOING IT GOD’S WAY and how do I know? Because I’m living it myself. It’s God’s grace that has kept me, and I lean fully on Him to keep me every day.
This article is disturbing, but I’m comforted in this one thing and that is, God said the day would come when people believe a lie over the truth. I don’t know how CHRISTIANS can see the word, see it plainly, and then CHOOSE to do whatever it is that they feel that they are educated, “enlightened,” and bold enough to do. Grace covers us when we REPENT, not when we “unapologetically” do what we feel is right and roll our eyes at the word of God which is our standard for living. There is a way that seems right, but the end is death. Choose to live, repent of this lie, and turn BACK to God, the lover of your soul. I’m standing for holiness. I pray that the readers here choose to do the same.
Thank God for your stance of TRUTH and cry of HOLINESS; which is a requirement NOT an option. I appreciate people like yourself Sis, that are willing to stand up in Christ, unashamed with the unadulterated, infalliable WORD of God!!! Blessings to you Great Woman of Faith for your declaration of TRUTH against this LIE !!!
I find this post full of both truth (fact) and excuses. I respect this sister for her boldness and being open about her decision, but honestly it’s wrong according to the Bible. Sex outside of marriage is a sin. Yes, the grace of God will cover and keep us. Where sin abounds, GRACE much more abounds (Rms 6). Its imporatant that we first, commit our ways unto Him. When we do this, He will keep us within the law that He has placed before us. Don’t get me wrong, Im not your super-spiritual holy-roller but it is my duty to live by His law in the manner that I know how. In order to live and walk in our purpose, we have to be willing to let God purify us. That way we can always bring glory to Him. I don’t feel this notion sends one in that direction. Yes, you are bold for admitting this, but are you really FREE? Being bound to perversion isn’t the life that God wants us to live. And to be honest, you’re not single, you’re very married bc you are consummating every relationship you have when you have sex with that person. I think if you’re going to deal, deal all the cards. Your heart can be right in the fact that you love God and want to live according to His decrees (Christian) but you have to admit, you need to work some things out. I hope that you begin to see the freedom of actually living free. Much love to you on your journey.
Well I have to say, my heart is so heavy!
I believe sin is sin. I believe that there are no BIG and little sins, sin is just sin. do you believe that Ms. CRUNKASHELL?
Well anyway I was thinking of and really feeling as thought I want to kill the man that gave me this disease I can not get rid of! So I will buy a gun tonight and off his but because God will forgive that.
My uncle likes to have sex with little girls that are between 5 and 10 years old. He rapes then kills them so they won’t tell, he’s a Christian and Jesus died for his sins so he just lives his life.
It’s hard for me to tell the truth all the time so I just lie.
It’s REAL hard for me to stay faithful to my husband because other men look so good and I can’t help myself, so I let them sex me and I’m so pleased that God forgives me!!
I am so glad that I can do all of these things like LIE, STEAL, CHEAT, KILL, and I never have to feel guilt because I have Jesus to take the rap!!!!!!!! YEAH party on!
P.S. has the lack of scripture made this a more desire able read?
I am catholic and actually do believe in waiting for marriage…which I actually did. But what I don’t understand is people who fail to keep God’s commandments feeling they have the right to tell other people how to live their lives. Isn’t that actually exactly what Jesus came to instruct us NOT to do? And for every passage that talks about sexual morality, there’s about 10 times as many that talk about selling everything we own and giving it to the poor, about taking the coat off our back and giving it to the man who has none, about making sure no widow, orphan, or foreigner in our community is ever without food, shelter, and rights. Now maybe I’m wrong and everyone who commented on the writer’s sin is actually keeping ALL the commandments. But this sounds a lot to me like the pharisees who loved to sit at the front of the temple and congratulate themselves on how much better they were than the tax collectors, thieves, and prostitutes (you know, the same people who Jesus hung out with, who were humble enough to realize they weren’t more righteous than anyone and spent their time trying to work on themselves instead of telling others how to live.)
Wooooooowwwwww! You don’t read the comments for 24 hours and so much happens.
I must say that I am absolutely a fan of crunkashell being vulnerable enough to share her truth. This post made me think of my grandparents who were ACTIVE members of the church, married for 71 years, and based upon the age of my oldest uncle did not save themselves for marriage. I have not one doubt in my mind that they are both, grandmother included, in heaven.
I also think about the levels of surveillance that black women endure regarding their personal sexual decision-making and the manner in which people “look the other way” when it comes to men. I for one believe that the time spent policing women’s sexual behavior in Christianity, which in many ways amounts to a lack of trust for women to make the best decisions for themselves, would be better spent addressing the many injustices that black women are burdened with daily that break our individual and collective spirits.
For the most part I think this has been a powerful discussion, except for the assertions that crunkashell is lost and leading the good women astray. I imagine there will be a few sermons this Sunday and potentially some bible study meetings speaking on this very topic, and to think our very own crunkashell got the dialogue started.
Keep it coming CF’s, there are still three more weeks in February for more exciting discussions.
Well I just want to say that even though at this stage of my life I agree with the arguments but disagree with the conclusion of Crunkashell, I am so thankful for the time during my journey when I was right where you are. I used to be a Pharisee throwing stones at people having sex outside of marriage, all the while refusing to admit my own struggles with the issue. But as you stated in one of your above comments, my own fears prevented me from asking those tough questions. It’s a form of bondage, but once I took off the mask and dealt with my desires it ultimately led me closer to God. I’m so thankful to serve a loving God who knows my heart and who encourages me to face my fears and my doubts about the issues of life. It’s very freeing to be human and let God be God. So please keep seeking, and keep talking my sister…
Well I have to say that first off I applaud your bravery in being open about what goes on in your bedroom. And yes more churches need to realize these types of conversations need to be had in our churches. Obviously we are going to have them and if the church wants to weigh in on them they need to be having them. Not reacting to them. I know that within my family we are having them. My mom is a preacher and my grandfather is a preacher and I ask them questions all the time. And they freely answer them for me.
I’m not going to throw quotes and scriptures at you. You’ve gotten them all and then some. LOL.
I just have a question for you. You say that you believe God and that you believe he saved you and that he has plans for you, but you don’t believe him when he explains how we are supposed to conduct are sexual lives.
I don’t understand that. How can God be right when he is blessing you but wrong when he is restricting your behavior? Now maybe I missed something but I just can’t understand that.
Now I’m not saying you have to believe one way or the other or that you are right or wrong. I just had that one question.
I don’t believe that Scripture is as clear about sexual prohibition as conservative churches teach. A.) Song of Solomon discusses passionate sexual encounters between two young people who appear to be unmarried. (My KJV bible claims in its subheadings that they are married, but many bible commentaries reject this reading).b.) when Paul spoke of sexual immorality, the word he used is “porneia,” which we translated to mean fornication, but which is by many accounts the wrong translation. Fornication is a modern concept, not a Biblical one. c.) the OT pronouncements against adultery were designed to protect a woman’s virtue in a context in which if she were “defiled” this made her unmarriageable; marriage was critical to economic and social sustenance because women had no identity outside of their fathers or husbands. d.) if you think Paul was talking about extramarital sex specifically, in most his letters, we read some things as being contextual and somethings as being universally applicable. For instance, most of us do not practice head covering according to 1 Cor 11. We ignore most of what Paul was talking about because we know he was giving specific instructions to the church at Corinth. We also largely (unless you go to a really conservative church) have rethought his pronouncements against women speaking in church (keeping silence, not teaching over men, etc.) We have said about those things that they were contextual, not universally applicable. Yet, when he speaks of sexual practices in these same letters, we universally apply those principles. Let’s take another issue: slavery. The book of Philemon does not reject slavery but explicitly tells Onesimus to be kind and obedient to his master. We explain it away by trying to contextualize slavery as something different in Paul’s day than it was in for 400 years in the U.S. But slavery referred to owning another person as property, sometimes temporarily, sometimes permanently. Based upon how modern day Christians reason about sex, I could say, “surely if God meant for us not to be enslaved knowing as He did how African Americans would be treated, then why didn’t he outlaw it.” We know slavery is wrong even though the Bible allows it (and we know that slave masters used these passages to force our ancestors into compliance and submission), and we don’t ask God questions about why He allows it, given how He knew we would be treated. But when it comes to sex, we say, “God knew what we would be going through and that women would be getting married later, and he didn’t issue a different commandment, so this must mean he wants us to abstain til marriage.” He must want us to be enslaved still, then, too. And He must want women to keep silence in the churches, too. So see if we invoke the context argument, then we must contextualize the prohibitions against sex. And if we say that whatever the Bible says goes regardless of context, then we must rethink our positions on women, slavery, etc. We can’t have it both ways, as you say.
Let me also add that when we think about divorce this question is important. Paul says that divorce is a sin unless a spouse cheats or is unsaved. I asked in my former church what a woman was to do in the case of domestic violence, and I was told that she should remain married, but separate for safety. This literally means that God would ask a woman to stay in bondage for the sake of respecting a rule. That’s classic enforcement of the letter of the law without regard to the spirit of it, namely that marriage should not be undertaken lightly or dissolved lightly. We cannot in good conscience ask any person to remain in a physically or emotionally abusive relationship of any kind. And even if scripture doesn’t tell us that, our internal moral compass, and in the case of many sisters–personal experience, should. I bring up this example simply to illustrate that contrary to what preacher’s tell us, we actually do make decisions about societal issues that sometimes don’t strictly conform to the Word and in the case of domestic violence and divorce should not. So this idea that we can’t discuss sex in any other than the strictest of Biblical contexts is not borne out by our conduct in other day-to-day questions that come up in relationships.
Crunk let me just ask this 2 questions please? So are you actually stating in your opinion that having sex before marriage is or is not sin? and do you believe all sin leads you to hell if not for the blood of Jesus?
I think that once we’re saved, we’re saved once and for all, and that we live under grace. Just like our works can’t save us, our works can’t ‘unsave’ us.
I think sex should not just be understood in the context of sin. It’s simply more complicated than that. Paul didn’t say premarital sex was a sin — he said sexual immorality [and there are all kinds of sexual immorality — rape, incest, adultery, etc]. What we translate as fornication didn’t exist as a concept in Paul’s day. And we should read Paul’s discussion of sex in context, just like we read his discussions of slavery, the treatment of women in the church, marriage (which remember Paul didn’t even think people should get married since he thought Jesus was soon to return) and even head coverings in context. We can’t decide that that all four of the latter topics were done a certain way in his day and not ours and then decide about sex and only sex that his mandate is permanent. That’s bad hermeneutics.
And interestingly enough, Jesus himself never gave a specific mandate about premarital sex.
To your point about bad hermeneutics, it’s so interesting that many Contemporary Christians are willing to exegete any text, and even when it goes against what we’ve always been taught or believed, it’s considered groundbreaking (i.e. women wearing pants, money being the root of evil, singing only hymns in church, even drinking for some people). But it’s like any honest exploration of the scriptures on sex is considered off limits. What exactly is the fear here? Is it fear that we might be wrong? I feel like we don’t mind that possibility in any other context but when it comes to sex–no way!
Sheridf:
“For the most part I think this has been a powerful discussion, except for the assertions that crunkashell is lost and leading the good women astray.”
And let the Church say AMEN.
@Crunkashell – I applaud you! As has already been stated by other commentors, it took some Courage on your part to bring this discussion to a public forefornt. But “bring it” you did. Not only is it a discussion worth having…it’s long overdue.
You’re obviously a talented writer and Learned woman. And at the very least, this discussion has prompted me to RE-think some of my own views on religion (Christianity) and sex/sexuality.
Keep writing. I’ll keep reading.
I just wanted to applaud your candor. And you’re definitely allowed to do whatever you want to do, and it’ is understandable that you’re unclear as to what the bible says about sexuality.
From someone who studies heavily, the Bible says NOTHING about masturbation. NOTHING at all! However, it does speak on fornication and adultery…you know what it says…these folks won’t inherit the kingdom of God. I do agree that the “church” puts these things in the black woman’s head that limits them to accept true happiness and fulfillment. That’s when you need to study to show yourself approved. However, to think that when the Lord returns and we haven’t lived a life aligned with his statues and commandments, your “grace” will be sufficient to keep you out the lake of fire is fooling yourself.
So, my advice would be to question what these pastors and “sanctified” women say by asking them, where is THAT in the bible, if they can’t show you, dismiss what they say and seek truth on your own. I don’t want to get too deep into it, but there is so much deception going on in the “church” and no one questions where did this come from. When folks don’t question what we’re being told and seek the word for themselves, being misguided by self and leaders is evident.
For example…everyone is going around saying they are saved, they are saved, they are saved…NOWHERE in the bible does it say this, NOWHERE…it only says we have the hope of salvation and this will only become known through the first and second resurrections during judgment…NO WAY to know before hand. The bible definitely says it is for NO MAN’s interpretation, so let’s just take it word for word.
I adore your bravery, so many more of us need this. Awesome post and writing!
Society does encourage men and women to have sex before marriage, but that in no way reflects God’s view on the issue. I am not perfect and have slipped up many times because I didn’t have the self-control or will power to resist my lust and in my quest to try to keep a man. Although what I was doing was wrong and stupid, I never become complacent in my attitude about fornicating and said “Oh well, why stop now! I believe that as Christians, especially we young Christians face a great amount of temptation but Jude 1:24 clearly states, God is able to keep us from falling. So when we become complacent about pre-marital sex, we are abandoning our faith in God to keep us from falling. I believe that worst than the act of sex, is the fact that we really don’t believe that God will be there for us when those hormones start raging or when we drop the bomb on a new guy that we’re celibate. Yes we all fall short and yes if you are saved God will forgive your sins, but if one is going to be serious and commited about adhering to God’s word, we have to get rid of our pre-existing attitudes of defeat.
Honey, whoever you are (and I say this with love) you’ve got it all wrong. You are greatly being deceived and don’t even know it. My problem is not with you having sex, rather its with you proclaiming to be saved and willfully having sex outside of marriage, thinking that its okay with God, and trying to convince others that it is too. Sex is not the sin. Sex outside of marriage is. What you are doing is trying to remix God’s standard to fit your own because of your inability to display self control. You cannot wipe out God’s word. Its already written and will always stand whether you choose to adhere to it or not, and it states fornication is a sin PERIOD.(1st Corinthians 6:13-20). I can quote scriptures for days, and for every issue you brought up, there is an answer for it.
It seems to me that you fear ending up like your circle of God fearing women who are getting older, but still celebate and not married. The typical thing to do is blame God for it and conclude that the “rule” of no sex before marriage is absurd. That would be like calling God absurd, since that was his original plan. Human beings are quick to blame God rather than take a look at themselves and their choices. NO one knows why these women are still single, it could be a host of reasons other than that God is holding out on their husband.
Christianity offers grace, but the Word also says “Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid” (Romans 6:1-2) The Bible also says “Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap” (Galatians 6:7)Also (last scripture, I promise) The Bible says “Be doers of the word and not hearers only, deceiving your ownselves” (James 1:22).
So being single saved and unapologetically sexin calls for some serious self evaluation. Just keeping it real. That is all.
Hello,
This is my first time on your site and I must say that I love this post.
One can Google the history of “sex as a sin” in the Christian church and see that the wrap that horizontal fun receives today and is very much man-made. Not to mention that there a few books of the Apochphrya (sp? the books intentionally omitted from the final version of the bible by the Nicean Council) that contain graphic illustrations about sex, dranking and living it up. LOL.
I am very active in my church and growing my relationship with God. Yet, there are many ‘churchy’ rules that I can no longer abide by as I grow. “Fornication” (the sex-kind, bc the word carries at least 3 different meanings, and not all instances in the bible refer to sex outside of marriage) is one that I had to let fall to the way side…
Thanks,
Cocoa
Also, from what I have been able to learn via study of history and the bible, sex outside of marriage became an issue with the Roman church/Constantine.
Because the priests were able to have sex and marry, they were producing many, many heirs to the church’s fortune. To compensate for and to prevent the loss of funds, the church did a few things, which included:
1) banning priests from dating and engaging in any kind of sexual relations with women…as this helped to curtail the child-bearing, aka heirs.
2) denouncing sex outside of marriage as a sin, which could only be forgiven with an offering made to the church. this of course was profitable because errbody was doing it.
We must be committed to studying this thing more on our own because many mistruths have been taught.
Thrive on,
Cocoa Girl
It’s always so interesting to me that when sex is the issue, everyone is quick to throw the sharpest Biblical quote in your direction. Now, was raised in the church all my life, Christian schooling, a mother with a Doctorate in Divinity and a father who is a deacon so I’m no stranger to every phrase and idea the Bible has to offer.
What really irritates me – I mean REALLY irritates me – is the “holier” than though mentality that does nothing to support or uplift one another. People response much more to relatibility than they do to condescension. That’s all this is. I won’t go as far as to say that premarital sex is not sin, but being in my twenties I understand how that desire is sometimes more than we wish to bear. Why can’t we all just admit that. There’s nothing wrong with saying, “I am a Christian and I’m also a sexual being.” It’s true. Now, acting on the desire is the sin, but everyone needs to stop acting like they don’t come across the temptation.
As a side note, sex is always the issue. But gluttony, greed, jealousy…all other sins that can consume us, but for whatever reason (perhaps, not as provocative as sex) these are things I see people struggle with all the time, but no one is quick to throw a verse in their face then. I guess what I’m saying is that sex may not be your Achilles heel, but trust me when I say something else is so stop the “holy than thou” mentality, finger pointing, and help each other out of love instead of judgment.
– Just Nic
Thank you for this… is all I can say.
Thanks!!
So are you saying the when God specifically said for us not to have sex outside of marriage, He wasn’t talking about you as well? Sex is a physical thing. It is simpky a fleshly desire that is to be denied until marriage! To be saved is to be free from sin,hell and to do what God says. If we don’t obey God, we don’t love Him because He said to love Him is to keep His commandments( His orders). And if we don’t love Him then we aren’t saved. So while His word tells us to present our bodies as a living sacrifice HOLY and acceptable unto God, we can’t allow our bodies to be used to fufill unholiness which is what sex is until we’re married. If you fast (deny your flesh), pray, study your word and keep your mind on God, you’ll find your focus shifting from sex to God who will bless you with whats good for you at HIS APOOINTED TIME! It gets hard but you have to have self-control and ask God to help you hold out until its time to release that desire with your husband as the bible says. Don’t let 3 minutes of pleasure send you to hell eternally for disobedience:)
@crunkashell…
beautiful piece.
also, beautiful attitude in responses to some of these condemning comments. i am both impressed & dismayed at the lack of editing in approving the comments to post – impressed, because you aren’t censoring your critics, but facing them with grace and dignity. dismayed, that they are here. i’m all for people voicing dissenting views and having a conversation, but not all of the dissenting views want a conversation.
i was late in the game in beginning my own sexual liberation journey, coming from a conservative christian background. My husband and I both (it is a shocker, i know) didn’t have sex with anyone or each other before we got married. We dated in high school & then again in college, and after we got married, the added dimensions of our relationship that sex brought was so…empowering. liberating. centering. Really moving. we are so grateful for the good married friends we had & a good sex book we read while we were engaged to help us get ready for that huge change.
So thus began all the processing of how the church demonizes sex outside of marraige, and glorifies it in marraige, without telling you how to make that transition. Every time we were horny before marraige, we would starve ourselves, and shame ourselves just for wanting it…which leads to horrible messed up emotional problems!
I still hold to the power and beauty of sex, but I’m with you – i think it is perfect for an emotionally safe & vulnerable (which usually involves some level of relational commitment) relationship.
Especially when we open up the can of worms about the politics of what defines marriage, and thus pre-marital sex, anyway. (hello! people in other cultures don’t get “married” like in mainstream US culture, which causes some problems with the american church’s legalistic definitions…)
Hello to all who read this. It is a pleasure to be of service to you sent by our Dad from above. As I was reading the post my heart began to break for us followers of Christ. I read Isaiah 55: 6-8 and from this scripture I want you to seek for truth. I commend you trying to understand Gods word. So many of us Christians forget to realize that God is God and His ways are not our ways. Therefore human minds are not able to fully grasp Gods word unless we have help. Help that is given to us by God Himself. Since it’s His wisdom that we live by we seek obtaining and understanding Gods wisdom from the Holy Ghost. See the thing is that human knowledge alone always fail when trying to comprehend what God says. This is evident by looking at the way slave masters treated slaves during the Atlantic slave trade and in America, how the Pharisees justified crucifying Christ and how men and even some women justified that women shouldn’t have had a voice in society during the era of women suffrage. I know this because you say “I don’t think”. I think is a state of mind that is liable to change do to the more knowledge and wisdom we obtain. “I feel” goes along with this to, but deals more on a stimulus that is presented before us either internally or externally. What you want is to have an “I know” statement. When you say I know it’s not only something said, thought, and felt but is also backed by a liable source of truth that can never change. And what better source then God Himself. Basically what I am encouraging you is to whenever you seek truth in the Bible ask God to speak through the Holy Spirit so that you may understand what God is trying to say. You’ll know that its God speaking by a since of joy and or peace and or conviction and or a slap in the face, you will feel when his presence comes upon you and don’t stop seeking until you experience this. Another way of knowing the truth is by confirmation from other followers of Christ that are seeking truth with you if ya’ll seek in one accord. So I implore you to ask yourself if you really want the truth and are able to handle the truth whatever it maybe… either the ministry of singleness for the rest of your life or the ministry of marriage on His own time.
Now to show you how the spirit works, the day after reading this blog my friend and I began to read Romans 8: 1-17 together. I used this new technique of listening prayer/meditation called “lectio divina”. What we did was read over the passage 5 times fast, 1 time slow, 1 time making notes and observations, and last time just waiting on the Holy Spirit to help apply this passage to our lives. Great things came out of it including a message the Holy Spirit sent to my friend (who I never even told him that I read this blog) from vs. 7 and the Spirit said to him “a hostile heart against God is quick to justify their sin.” If you don’t believe me read and meditate on Romans 8:1-17 and I pray the Holy Spirit will reveal it to you if you wait for the answer.
I myself looking at this paragraph am a testament to this. I won’t go into my testimony about it unless you want to know. That goes with any questions as well. If you can, I would like you to read Emotional Healthy Spirituality by Peter Scazzero. It is a blessing that is shocking everybody I know that has read it. Especially to the black community.
One more thing, note listening to the Holy Spirit when studying the word for the truth applies to all situation and question. So learn ways to Meditate so that Gods truth will come. God Bless and remember prayer and meditation is the key to being lead by the Holy Spirit to grow your relationship with Christ.
This is definitely a provocative topic that’s inciting some great conversations. I was wondering if the author believes if sex outside of marriage, or “saved and sexin'” is a sin? I understand the author believes that we need engender a bigger view of God and live by His grace, but is that a suggestion that the act of sex outside of marriage is or is not a sin? I just wanted to know because after reading the post twice, I wasn’t sure if the argument was that the act is not a sin or instead, we should not be so caught up with works.
I absolutely love crunkashell’s honest inquiry and dialogue. I like the brutal self honesty which is prerequisite number one for entering and possessing the Kingdom of God.
She is correct in her assertions concerning the stifling conservatism (tradition) of the Black Church. She is also on point about the double standard within and without the Church concerning sexuality.
And her theological insight into grace is in the right direction. I also agree that because a believer commits sin (intentionally or otherwise) that said commission does not automatically disqualify their salvation.
(Time and space preclude supporting all of the above with scripture.)
However there is just one problem. And here it is:
1 Thessalonians 4:3 (KJV)
“For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication.”
In His Word, God has never wavered on the issue of fornication. As the record says ; “He’s the same yesterday, today, and forever.”
No doubt our all knowing, all seeing God foresaw the current modern social difficulties to which Crunkashell refers. Yet, He has not, did not, change His Word to suit current conditions.
This suggests He has already made a “way out of no way.”
Somewhere between the Love and Grace of God and Crunksashells’s throbbing clitoris and healthy libido there is an answer. It is in THE WORD. That’s all there is and there ain’t no more.
Keep asking, seeking, and knocking for God rewards such.
Dear Rev. Wyatt,
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I have a couple of hermeneutic questions. A.) I have read in many theological sources that the word we translate as “fornication” does not have a biblical equivalent, as the original word is “porneia,” which referred to a variety of sexual acts, and not premarital sex specifically.
B.) you suggest that “No doubt our all knowing, all seeing God foresaw the current modern social difficulties to which Crunkashell refers. Yet, He has not, did not, change His Word to suit current conditions.” The implication of your statement is that if God, in HIs omniscience, does not give a new mandate, we are to follow the old one, as written in the Word. Yet, Paul told Onesimus to be kind to his slave master, and the New Testament never condemned slavery. Yet, as you say, God knew what would happen to African American people. Does His failure to give a specific mandate outlawing slavery mean that He desired us to remain enslaved? And if not, how do we reconcile our quest for freedom and our belief that God wanted us free, with what we find in the Bible, unless we use arguments around the contextual specificity of Paul’s statements to Onesimus?
C.) It seems to me regarding hermeneutics that we have to either 1.) contextualize and then apply, which means that we can’t pick the parts of Paul’s letters that we want to retain as universal, and merely disregard the other parts as contextually specific (which is what we do on issues like women’s roles, standards of dress, all of which Paul gave mandates for). or 2.) we have to practice the Bible as written, which means we have to grapple with moral questions around racism, sexism (homophobia –but if you’re conservative, we don’t even have to go there right now, :), and the fact that as African Americans and as women, for instance, our entire history of resisting bondage might mean that we have gone morally against the Word.
One last question. If as you say, the Word is all there is, then what are we to make of the passionate, young, unmarried couple in Song of Solomon? I was taught it as an allegory of God and man, but many, many, theologians argue that that is a gross misreading of the text, or most preachers ignore it all together; I think in all my years in church, I’ve only ever heard one sermon about it, and it was one verse being used in a prophetic manner, rather than strict textual exegesis.
The problem with seminary training is that students are trained to approach God’s Word as non-absolute.
The Genesis record is striking in its simplicity. There was one man and one woman, whom God called “one flesh.” The implications of such simplicity are numerous and open to anyone who will discover them through meditating on God’s Word.
One obvious implication is that God provides no remedy for sexual desire apart from the relationship of “bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh”; (which is a two way street between a man and a woman).
The modern argument put forth by homosexuals is that: “God made me this way, God wants me to be happy, fulfilled, etc. therefore God is okay with homosexual sex and marriage.
This is essentially the same argument that crunkashell uses to self justify her sexual behavior; i.e “God made me; God knows I have needs; therefore God wants me to satisfy those needs, and God because of His grace and mercy God will excuse me.”
If the Word of God is viewed as non absolute; than God didn’t mean it when He says: “For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication.”
If God is a liar like man than anything God says is open to situational hermeneutic.
Now as Crunkashell has observed there APPEAR to be any number of contradictions in scripture which raise real questions for anyone with an honest intellectual bent.
One such contradiction (I prefer paradox) is what is our God’s position on slavery, specifically our ancestral slavery?
It would literally take a well thought out and well written theme paper to properly address this question and others like it. (Crunkashell’s question deserves such a response.)
The simplest answer has to do with the fact that there are two aspects to God’s will. There is His direct will, and there is His permissive will. God permits certain things, events, and situations to happen, not because it His direct will; but because he has a higher plan, purpose, and timetable.
Finally, this Word of God can not be apprehended like a textbook. His Word is alive and exists outside and above the dimension of the mind. His Word is spiritually discerned.
We are to receive and believe (this is a spiritual process) the WORD as real, and absolute. That’s when
the marvelous truths of His Word become manifest in our lives.
2 Peter 18-20
18For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
The bible says that in the endtime even Christians will begin to question the word and I’m sorry to tell you that this is what is happening to you. You have chosen self over being christlike. What is the definition of being a follower? We are to be like Christ and he did not have premarital sex. If you want to do it, it is your choice but dont destroy the word of God to make your choices okay. If that wasnt enough I will add more to prove God wants us to be holy.
Ephesians 5:8-14 (New International Version, ©2010)
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. 14 This is why it is said:
“Wake up, sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”
We are to be a light.
Also,
Hebrews 13:4
4 Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.
Clearly states that the sexually immoral will be judged and in verse 8 says God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Or am I taking that out of context, it is pretty straight forward.
Here are more:
Acts 15:20
20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
1 Corinthians 6:13
13 “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food”—but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
And another which clearly states:
2 Corinthians 12:21
21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.
Galatians 5:19
19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
Your Father in heaven says this is a sinful nature. As a Christian and seeing the word above what other excuse can you make?
Do what you will but dont obstruct the word and here is a scripture to sum it up.
2 Peter 2
1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
4For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8(For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man’s voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
17These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
I guess all this is also not relevant to sexual sin in the lives of Christians either? I am sure you will find some way to make this okay. I pray that your heart is changed and you see and feel the love of Christ, because his love and a relationship with him would make you not even want to sin and when you do sin, you want to get it right immediately. You see Jesus is not only my savior but my friend and sin grieves God and do not want to grieve him. he means that much to me. Will I mess up yes, will he forgive me if I ask for forgiveness, yes he will. Will I be okay will sinning onto my temple, the place Jesus lives? No I am not okay with that. This walk is bigger than sex.
Urbane Professional, you are ON IT! For real… The problem I saw with the article is that the author claims to be saved, yet all the “enlightenment” she receives comes not from God/the Bible, but rather from herself. What is the whole point of being saved if you are going to guide your own life? The sin that got Adam kicked out of the garden was the quest of wisdom outside of God (eating from the tree of knowledge of good/evil against God’s instruction). Again, I agree. If you want to have sex, then go right ahead, but please don’t say that Jesus died to give you this “freedom”. Jesus came and died to give us freedom from sin, which, unfortunately, many people don’t seem to want these days. Great scripture references!
The author said:
“Because my friends were following the rules, to a tee, and yet the rewards elude(d) them.”
Someone needs to pimp-slap this person’s pastor. Lol.
The rewards? Well, the REWARDS are closer fellowship with the Creator of Existence. And those boundless rewards certainly are NOT “eluding” those who are obedient. Duh. The only people those rewards ARE eluding are those who prefer titillation over the Vine.
Basic Christianity 101.
Where’s that non-teaching pastor? Lol.
I have been reading the replies to this article. Crunkashell, I think the dialogue between you and June is very important context to this article that I think anyone who reads it needs to see. Ultimately, what I was most concerned about in this piece is providing sexual liberation to someone who has not or will not make healthy choices in their sexual lives. I think sexual ethics and the social forces that limit the partner choices of black women are other important parts of this issue that should be discussed further.
This conversation is important. I appreciate your honesty. I don’t think you should be personally attacked for your viewpoint. Ultimately, no one but God knows us and our heart. I think there are misrepresentations of scripture used for any and everything. I don’t really know for certain what the scriptures says about pre-marital sex because there can be multiple interpretations. But, I think that love is our aim. Even in Song of Songs, love was there.
Whatever the choice, I think individually it is important to establish a sexual ethic and carefully think about what you want sex to mean for you in your life. I still believe in love, commitment, and monogamy when having sex personally. I value my body too much for anything less. I understand as a woman of color, my partner options are limited and perhaps I may never get married. At this point in my life, I’d rather be celibate than have casual sex. Though at times challenging, I can handle it right now and I don’t attribute it fully to some personal characteristics I possess. Though, I think having and focusing on your purpose can help you focus less on your sex life. For those who can’t do it or choose not to, I hope that they make healthy choices.
I think this has less to do with sex and more about a lack of self control. I don’t care if it’s drinking coffee or chewing gum–if you say you “need” or “have to have” it, you are being led by your flesh and not your spirit. It just sounds like you gave up on bringing your flesh under subjection. As we know, a fruit of the Spirit is self-control; therefore I must conclude that you are producing fruit not of the Spirit; but of the flesh. Regardless of how you feel about fornication, the root of the matter is this, and as eloquently as you may have written, you totally bounced around it.
SN: didn’t Paul advise about marrying if your passions consumed you?
I will be discussing your Blog on my internet radio show TODAY from 12:30pm-2pm CST. Please tune in to http://www.wrugradio.org for Soulful Sessions With Drea! Very interesting, indeed…
Dear Ms. Holliday,
Thank you for informing us about the radio show. I am happy to see that the post is sparking conversation, especially among people of faith. I’m assuming that your choice to inform of us of the show rather than to invite us to participate in the conversation is an intentional one. We will certainly inform our readers about the show, but as most CFs are college professors, our teaching obligations make listening in the middle of the day on a Tuesday an improbability.
Let me also say, however, that I am choosing not to listen because I got some inkling about your show by following various internet threads related to my post. If your show is the one referenced in this blog thread, http://www.holyculture.net/forum/showthread.php?49846-Single-Saved-and-Sexin , then I suspect that the conversation you would like to have about my piece is very different from the one I think needs to happen. I am not in the habit of defending myself against unfounded accusations, and readers seem very comfortable making judgments about who I personally am, rather than engaging the piece in terms of its implications for their own faith walk. I don’t hang out in front of firing squads, even ones that have convened themselves in the name of Jesus.
I suspect that readers will take my choice not to participate as evidence that your prayers to God have silenced the forces of darkness, or fear that my “worldly perspective” cannot stand on holy ground. I’m sure a range of scriptures will be cited for this point of view including all the faves from Roman 6, 1 Cor 6-7, Galatians 6, and some Deuteronomy and maybe even some Proverbs, “there’s a way that seemeth right to a man, but the end thereof…” That’s one of my faves. I fully expect that readers will engage the post with the zeal of the pharisees, in much the same way as they have done here. And I suspect that grace will only be spoken of in terms of what it can’t do, not what it can do for us. I suspect readers will say that I have made myself God, that I have exalted my sexuality above God, that I am not saved, don’t know the Lord, and am trying to justify my sins. In other words, I have heard all these objections, both here and elsewhere, and indeed, I was aware of them before I wrote the piece. If that is the conversation that my fellow Christians need to have about my words, so be it. It is not, however, a conversation that I consider especially productive. So I bow out gracefully, and my prayer is that God and His Holy Spirit are present and accounted for in your conversation, and that all He intends to be accomplished through your radio ministry on this day will be accomplished. Be blessed.
Dear “Crunk As Hell”,
Not sure what this holyculture.net is, but those are not my views at all! The reason I didn’t ask you to be a part of the broadcast today is because I didn’t think about it. Soulful Sessions With Drea is a KINGDOM broadcast. We look at all perspectives of the issue. I believe you will be pleasantly pleased by what you hear on the broadcast. I will post the link upon our completion. I’m choosing to not address the latter portion of your comment, simply because it doesn’t pertain to my opinion.
To find out WHO I am and WHAT I’m about, go to http://www.andreaLholliday.com.
Blessings, my Sister!
Drea
I am sorry, but I disagree with this concept of utilizing the word of God to justify our behaviors. As Hitler and the Jews for lack of understanding, they utilized the word of God to justify their hardened hearts and murderous ways.
You cannot pull the word of God apart for our own purposes. You must read it as a whole and within context.
Look, if you enjoy sex than fine. Those are your preferences, but it is not a theology or principle of God. He established marriage first and foremost in Eden. He says husbands love your wives as I love the church. Throughout the Bible the saints are compared to a bride and Christ as the groom.
“There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death” (Proverbs 12:12). Enjoy your business, but don’t try and compromise the word of God with these statments. God’s words are clear. As he states that homosexuality is an abomination to him, he states that sexual immoral, idolaters etc will not go to heaven.
The question is this. Do you love your sin more than you love God? We have become so self-seeking and sex-oriented in this world that I am not shocked by this article. We struggle to find God and relinquish our sins to him…thinking that somehow we can do as we want and still proclaim the Gospel and Jesus.
“Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is–his good, pleasing and perfect will” (romans 12:2).
Is it possible to be set free from the cycle of sin/sex/addictions/drugs…yes. That is the sacrfice of God with his son Jesus. A permanent atonement for our sins. We have the freedom to move away from our sins through the blood of Jesus Christ.
Finally, look at the life of Jesus as the clue as to principles of God. He told Mary Magdalene- “neither do I condemn you. Go and Sin no more”….amd you can say Mary enjoyed sex as well.
“For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline” (2 Tim 1:7).
Dear “Crunk As Hell”,
Not sure what this holyculture.net is, but those are not my views at all! The reason I didn’t ask you to be a part of the broadcast today is because I didn’t think about it. Soulful Sessions With Drea is a KINGDOM broadcast. We look at all perspectives of the issue. I believe you will be pleasantly pleased by what you hear on the broadcast. I will post the link upon our completion. I’m choosing to not address the latter portion of your comment, simply because it doesn’t pertain to my opinion.
To find out WHO I am and WHAT I’m about, go to http://www.andreaLholliday.com.
Blessings, my Sister!
Drea
Dear Andrea,
I will listen when I get some time, and if as you say, I will be pleasantly surprised, then I most certainly stand corrected.
All good wishes,
CrunkAsHell
The topic, “Single, Saved, and Sexin'”, made for very interesting conversation on my internet radio broadcast today. I appreciate your fearlessness in sharing your view on this matter. While my perspective & view on the matter is different from yours, I believe that there is nothing wrong with a “healthy” exchange. Blessings! Below is the link from today’s broadcast:
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/12715230#utm_campaign=www.facebook.com&utm_source=12715230&utm_medium=social
this article is a classic example of grace out of control or counterfeit grace. How can we forget Titus 2:11-12
11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age.
true grace teaches you to deny ungodliness. what is ungodliness? anything that is not like God and it teaches us to deny wordly passions and to be self-controlled. Christ even said if you want to come after me pick up your daily cross and follow me(his example of self-denial and love). I would say go to eharmony.com. if that doesn’t work start single parties where single men(black or white or asian or peurto rican) can come and have an opportunity to interact. look…I won’t offer you just judgement for giving up but rather encourgement not to give in to your wordly passions and an alternative solution(mercy) and this applies to every woman on this site. If you want to start a site that is black woman friendly and that screens and helps find good and good looking, honest and God fearing man and allows you to match with these men then send an email CreateADatingSiteForBlackWoman@gmail.com. Yo’ll be able to give them an anonymous card with your alias that will allow them to go online and then take a compatibility test to see your likely hood of being a good match…listen doing that is better off displeasing the Lord and builting such a site will allow you to be proactive in choosing a good mate and still have the thrill of being chase by a man. I’m a web developer and can either help or find the resources to help. Jesus is Christ is coming back very soon, make the right decision.
My sister, my sister, my sister; I applaud you for your outlook. I am a PK and have been so for about 20 years. And that is a hard struggle. I have to say I disagree for God ordained SEX for the state of marriage, for a MAN and a WOMAN. So so God would not lead you down a path that he set for two. However I can say that I acknowledge the struggle and that it is no differ for a man and nor should it be. God did not set aside a different rule book (BIBLE) for man and the double standard behaviors are one of the VIRUSES that plague humanity. So I commend you my sister for taking this issue by the horns but urge you to pray without ceasing, for GOD is the way, the truth and the light; look to him and he will direct your path.
I too struggle with this and I am riddled with guilt when my human desires when over the man that GOD has called me to be. Grace and mercy are a fact and I am a product of it and will be for as long as there is SIN.
Bless You My Sister. May God Bless You and Keep You Is My Prayer!
(Sorry for any spelling mistakes I’m not the best speller)
i just want to add this in here, even if i was not saved and didn’t look at sex before marriage as a sin I wouldn’t want to be giving up my good stuff to a guy not willing to marry me and thought of me as just some botty call, or just some lady he cares for so much and wants to have sex with but he doesn’t love me enough to want to make me all his. an old saying “why should they buy the cow when they get the milk for free?” i don’t know.
no commitment means he can have more sex partners, that could lead to STD’s and condoms can lead me to never bearing a child and only having sex! argh it’s just no real win! even women who don’t call them selves Christians don’t want to give up their sex to dudes willing to just hit and walk away when ever they get good and ready.
Know the WORTH of your gift that lyes between your legs.
that’s all I’m done
I’m so sick and tired of hearing people say that our comments should be said in a loving and gentle tone.It’s not like this sistah is repentive and is admiting that she is struggling and wants help, she is in straight up sin and trying to say the bible gives her a pass! Do I get a pass to do what I want? There are times when I want to do my own thing and disobey God. But Jesus sacrificed his life for me, so the least I can do is sacrfice my wants and desires for him. Look the bible says we should fight the good fight and ALWAYS contend for the faith. Jesus was not nice when he knocked over the tables in the temple. I’ve got love for crunk but she is dead wrong! She knows the word and is in direct disobedience to God’s word. No matter how many scholars and pastors have amened her beliefs and behaviors she is still consciously living a sinful lifestyle. So it really does not matter what anyone says, if God says it’s wrong then it’s wrong period!
I agree with you Joy to a degree but remember, we have ALL fallen and we ALL sin. She is wrong, like you are wrong, like I am wrong. Callin somebody out is not always the best way to get a person to understand your point of view. I think it would be nice if you gave her an example of what is good about your life to see if she might want to know HOW you come to have the experiences you do in the LORD. However, we all have our way of expressing ourselves, you made it plain.
you have made sex an idol in your life. Having a fulfilling sex life has taken priority over glorifying God in your life – that is idolatry.
the bible is clear that sex that glorifies God takes place within the confines of marriage.
To say otherwise is to not only say that God’s way is not good, but it is also to say that you know better than God.
but there is hope.
there is no sin that God cannot forgive. Acknowledge your sin before him and to turn to him in repentance and faith. Read ephesians 2 – If salvation were contingent on our performance, we would all stand condemned. salvation is contingent upon Christ’s work.
Romans 6 says that we should not sin in light of God’s grace. If we do so, we show that we are not truly saved/born again/children of God/christians etc.
christianity is about the relationship with Christ rather than the religion. what type of relationship with Christ do you have when you’ve come to terms with, embrace, and CONTINUE on with a lifestyle that is not of Him? to have a relationship with someone, anyone, requires you to be in constant communication with that person and trying your best to be your best in that relationship. love is redeeming and selfless. it’s the same with Christ. He sacrificed His life and suffered for your sins so that you may know the Father. No, we don’t have to suffer as Christ did, but in order to develop a Christ like character, we have to deny ourselves of certain things. it’s not about guilt or shame. that’s a tactic of the enemy. it’s about living in the light. if you’re striving to seek God with ALL your heart, then you’re striving to attain His character. those commandments weren’t set to make us feel like God is a prude. it’s so He can protect us from the wayward ways of this world and to develop a God like character. those commandments give us insight to who God is. we all fall short of glory but it is by the grace of God that we are forgiven. however, we should strive to not make those mistakes. sex before marriage is NOT of God. think about it? sex that is not ordained by God is risky even if it’s a marriage. if God is at the head of a marriage there is security. you don’t have to worry about std’s, sti’s, hiv/aids, or unwanted pregnancies. you can enjoy it freely. don’t make God into a God that serves you and your needs because then you’re making your needs and yourself into God.
Word!!
also, the bible calls us to be set APART from the world, not a part of it. what distinguishes you from the secular world when you do the same as they do? i think our actions are true reflections of our hearts.
Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Romans 1:1 ESV
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,…
The path is narrow my sistah! This journey is not for everyone and the real joy of serving the Lord is missed by so so many. Can we talk about the freedom we have in Christ and what that means to a Christian life. Stress kills and for those of us who really have a relationship with our father we LIVE a life on this earth like no one else – it’s abundant! Not lacking – abundant! Amen?
This was sent to me by a minister friend of mine after we had gone out. We always get into random deep discussions like. I find this article appealing in that it should lead to open, honest, and free discussion. What has happened is some have fallen back on the same pat answers and the same scripture used to respond to questions on sex. As a single sister and a leader in my church, I applaud this blog for asking questions if to only find some clarity on the double standards we’ve always been taught. And so, I don’t believe you are leading the world to sin as one responder put it, I do believe people should ask these questions so they can be as honest with themselves about the things they do. I completely agree that sex has been a taboo subject for so long in the church and because of this, we fail single parents, gays, single people, and youth who have questions that should be answered prior to them getting into their 30’s. Just say no has never really been a good response. Thanks again for encouraging dialogue.
I just read your post and ran across it accidently. I have been having sex off and on for years and I am a Christian, baptize in Jesus Name, fill with the Holy Ghost, a Minister, and active in church. It has always been a battle for me to be sexually active I enjoy having sex; I enjoy the closeness and the intimacy. Yes God satisfied my needs but that need is never fully satisfied. I can relate to what you are writing and understand fully. The longest I when without any sex was 2 ½ years. I am not the type that go around sleeping with men because I know the sexual transmitted disease are really and I do not plan to get one and thank God I have never gotten any STD’s. I have been in a relationship with same guy for several years. He has been wonderful when I would tell him that I wasn’t going have sex with him anymore he would understand but I enjoyed being with him and eventually we would start having sex. Now I pray and talk to God I am not going to say that He understands but I believe that he will forgive me. I can recall for years not becoming a Minister because I knew that I enjoyed having sex and I would stop but always return to having sex. I have not gotten to the point where you are but I have learn how to be comfortable with the choices and decisions I am making. I pray continually, read the bible, it is all in the hands of God. I love being saved; I love God but how long single people are suppose to stay single without closeness and intimacy of another person. Some people go all their lives and never experience true intimacy. I have several Christian friends between the age of 40 – 50 who has never had sex and is waiting for marriage. Is promise that we all will get married, enjoy a life fully of sexual encounter with our mate, enjoy a life full of pleasure it is not promise. Yes I want to be married one day but it is not promised to me. I don’t want to deny myself of sex/intimacy while I am waiting and what if I never get married. I am not saying that everyone should do as I do, people need to do what they feel is right and what they feel God will forgive them for. I enjoy reading your information there is not many people that would write something of that nature. Many married couples pass judgment on the singles, let them get divorcee after being married for so many years. Where they or used to having sex regularly and see how many of them survive without the physical contact (not many of them will refrain from sex until they are married). I wrote this quickly and didn’t take the time to proof read the information I hope you can understand.
I hear you, Sis, and I appreciate your comment. Thanks for reading and be blessed!
Dear Crunkashell,
I read your post and first of all, give you much credit for being honest and true about an unspoken issue that many Christian, single, women experience. When I was single, I too, remember the maddening cycle of celibacy-“oops I dun messed up Jesus keep me near the cross guilt! It becomes maddening, especially to someone who TRUELY does want to live a life that is pleasing to God. True, if you look around us, you will see men of God, preaching and teaching, acknowledging first lady on Sunday, and back door tipping on Monday. I may be wrong but from your post, I hear a daughter of the King that somewhere along the way, tried to abstain sexually, but got tired of being plagued with guilt, self condemnation, and self torture out of a feeling of having “disappointed God yet again.” If I am correct, sister, you are not alone and though it doesn’t seem like it, there ARE Christian brothers who are going through the same thing.
Let me just say I understand, I empathize and can sympathize. (I have friends who can vouch for me.)
Rather than bombard you with scriptures (I believe you already know and have heard them all), let me just share this with you.
If you want God to give you one of His sons, then please, don’t grow tired. If you want God’s best in this area, you have to give him your best. I am so glad I made up my mind to give celibacy ANOTHER try. God has truely blessed me with a wonderful husband and he will do the same for you.
The soul tie is REAL. Even if you feel “satisfied” now, those old feelings of condemnation will eventually return. It is a trick of the enemy. A dirty trick but a trick just the same.
I apologize for writing so much, but just felt compelled to share. There is so much I could share with you but can’t due to space. Feel free to write back. Again, thanks for being so honest because there truely is a need for this conversation.
Here’s a link to the BlogTalk Radio Interview that CF CrunkAsHell gave on the topic.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/divinedialogue
Wow. I must admit it hurt me to read this. Cause I think as someone else has said, you ma’am have scales over your eyes most likely because of the things you heard and witnessed at church by leadership. But let me say again, this is not the will of God concerning anyone who claims to be a son/daughter of His. Everything you have said is so far from the Word it makes me scared for you. They have given you the word that you say you know but you seem to have created loopholes around them. But God’s word is clear on this matter. && I hope and pray that you and others who agree with this will come to that conclusion before its too late. Romans chapter 1 will answer a question that was asked of where in the bible does it say that you can no longer be saved. God will give you over to your flesh..and you will not have the mind to repent. Once that happens your fate is pretty much sealed. I don’t want to debate the word as I believe others that have spoken against this also do not want to do. But also keep in mind that you are now responsible for the people you have put this out to and for the souls who received it. Praying for you and others.